Supercharger base tune settings

[BlackLX]

The kit I got has the 9 lb pully on it. I got the step colder plug, now I need to know the gapping to run.

Also, I need to know timing. Mark told me through a PM that 10* is fine, but that was assuming I'd run the 6 lb pully. SO is 10* still OK?

Next, what Fuel pressure should I run? I have stock 19 lbs in for now. I am using the FMU with it also, but what do I need to adjust the FPR to?

Thanx guys.

ps...Mark do you have an extra 6 lb pully around? Or does anyone here have one?

[86merc]

Are you running a upgraded ignition? Like a MSD or crane box, aftermarket coil?

Are you using a aftermarket timming controll or boost retard?

What size injectors?

What are you using for fuel controll? FMU or a chip?

Pump gas or race gas?

[BlackLX]

19 lb injectors, sotck ignition. Im runing the FMU.

93 octain

[Mark302]

The thing is, you shouldn't run less than 10* of timing no matter what you are running.

.035 for plug gap is what I run. I would run the FP at around 45psi with the hose off. Sorry, No I don't have a extra 6# pulley. A dyno tune is never a bad idea either just to make sure the tune is safe. If you dyno in Greenville. I can come help to get it tuned in.

[Greg@GLD]

Upgrade the injectors to 30's and re-calibrate that FMU. Watch timing advance, run a boost retard if posible. Using a 9 LB. Pulley with 19 lb injectors and a 190 LPH pump might create some problems. Like I told you in my PM, you would be wise to start out with 6 PSI first. As for the plug gap, run an aftermarket ignition and ou won't have to close the gap down. A bigger gap will create a better spark. if you amplify the igntion, you won't have to worry about the bost snuffing out your spark. Also, if you go to a 6 PSI pulley and open up the intake with better tubing (like a powerpipe) you will increase boost and CFM w/o spinning the blower faster. You will also find with higher boost comes higher air charge temps. You might run just as goo on 6 PSI with better airflow and a little more timimg than running with the stock intake tubing and a 9 PSI pulley. You also start breaking the internal belt on those powerdynes when you run the 9 PSI system...

[Greg@GLD]

Mark, I have a question of my own with regard to FP- Since the FMU blocks the return line off under boost and raises pressure far beyond the base setting, what difference does it make where the FP is set? The EEC will learn it's way around that change when not in boosted conditions anyway, and when under boost the regulator will not be able to do much about the 19 PSI injectors at 85 PSI...? (9PSI boost with 19's would end up around 85-ish? Am I off base? I respect your opinions, you have done fantastic with a powerdyne, it's just that when I had a blower I got so much conflicting info, and the FMU kind of skews the fuel pressure setting issue even more IMHO...

[Kool Rock Steady]

True Greg, FMU's are garbage. You are better off going with 30# inj and having it tuned. Only thing fmu's are good for is gas mileage. Also with a smaller gap plug the car will run a little rougher and 1 more thing
DON'T USE A PLATNIUM PLUG :p

[BlackLX]

I don't have much money...Otherwise I would get larger injectors, a retard, and a new ignition.

I am going to go ahead and order the 6 lb pully from summit and a Fuel pressure regulator for the time being. I will use the FMU calibrated for 19lbs for the time being also.

From what I've read- Fuel pressure regulators are important to have to increase the fuel flow to prevent from running dry. the stock FPR is unadjustable and possibly wont give me what I need.

Thanx for the input so far guys...keep it coming. All is appriciated!

[Kool Rock Steady]

sorry, I edited my post. I meant the FMU is junk. We all need a fpr..lol

[86merc]

Blacklx- Like Mark said, you do not want to run much less than 10* of base timming. A boost retard will let you keep the timming up at low rpm/boost for max low end power. Then it pulls out timming at higher boost. If you want I have a Vortech BTM you can have cheap. I used it only for a few months. 9#'s of boost will require a upgrade to the ignition. You might have spark blow out at higher rpm and the retard will help detonation. Most tunners I talked to said at 10#'s with 93 octain gas you can get away with about 20-22* of total timming.

The fmu might be OK with the 19# injectors but verify what the air fuel ratio is with a wideband. The 30# injectors would be a wise investment in the near future.

Greg- I was able to tune my car with a adjustable FPR and FMU. The base pressure has a direct effect on the FMU pressure and fuel curve. The base fuel helped get the A/F ratio right through out the rpm band. The FMU discs were also used to adjust the a/f ratio at higher boost levels. Playing with both of them I was able to get a pretty steady A/F ratio. The base pressure on my car had to be lowered to about 42# vs. the 50# I had been running. Then I had to use the 8:1 vs. the 6:1 FMU disc to get the air fuel ratio right. It took about a hour of tunnig and work but was very worth it. The a/f ratio was about 12.5:1 untill about 3500rpm. Then it climbed to 11.3:1 above that. The FMU does put a in wierd fuel curve. The base fuel pressure tunning was a big help to smooth it out.

[BlackLX]

Whats cheap on the BTM? I am really tight on funds right now.

Can I hook the BTM up by itself, or does it require anything else. Sorry I am new to this whole thing.

[Greg@GLD]

Blacklx- Like Mark said, you do not want to run much less than 10* of base timming. A boost retard will let you keep the timming up at low rpm/boost for max low end power. Then it pulls out timming at higher boost. If you want I have a Vortech BTM you can have cheap. I used it only for a few months. 9#'s of boost will require a upgrade to the ignition. You might have spark blow out at higher rpm and the retard will help detonation. Most tunners I talked to said at 10#'s with 93 octain gas you can get away with about 20-22* of total timming.

The fmu might be OK with the 19# injectors but verify what the air fuel ratio is with a wideband. The 30# injectors would be a wise investment in the near future.

Greg- I was able to tune my car with a adjustable FPR and FMU. The base pressure has a direct effect on the FMU pressure and fuel curve. The base fuel helped get the A/F ratio right through out the rpm band. The FMU discs were also used to adjust the a/f ratio at higher boost levels. Playing with both of them I was able to get a pretty steady A/F ratio. The base pressure on my car had to be lowered to about 42# vs. the 50# I had been running. Then I had to use the 8:1 vs. the 6:1 FMU disc to get the air fuel ratio right. It took about a hour of tunnig and work but was very worth it. The a/f ratio was about 12.5:1 untill about 3500rpm. Then it climbed to 11.3:1 above that. The FMU does put a in wierd fuel curve. The base fuel pressure tunning was a big help to smooth it out.

Thanks for the reply. I was told that FMU's are not the way to go- too "crude" and not enough tunability, but I did see people use bleeder valves to fine tune them. Problem with "disc tuning" is too much "either-or" but it sounds like you solved that with the AFPR. Seems the bleeder valve approach is basically doing the same thing- a minor variation of FP under boost to get the desired A/F ratio... The guy who designed the EEC for Ford told me to depend on my EFI extender and NOT use an AFPR- he suggested I put my stock unit back on. Since Mikey has no Extender, that would not help in this case, but Mark uses one, which muddles the discussion even further... :thud:

[86merc]

Mikey- I would sell the BTM for less than half off. They sell in Summit for $335. If you want it $150 plus shipping.

Greg- I know a local guy with a mild s-trim combo that runs mid 10's @ 1340mph with 42#'s and a FMU with a bleeder. I know they work they just take longer to dial in. A little of trial and error goes into tunning them. The hardest part is getting by the major hit the FMU puts on the fuel curve. It's my experience that a car with a larger injector and small FMU step up ratio ratio is easier to get the A/F steady. I think a huge jump like 40psi to 80+psi is hard to tune around. A 24# injector with a base fuel pressure at 40psi that jumps to 85psi end up flowing fuel like a 50# injector. That is a big jump in injectors. I think that is why people hate FMU's. They run too small of an injector and to compensate they run a big step up ratio in the FMU.

I would still say a adjustable FPR is good to use even with the extender. When I put the 42#'s (no FMU) in my car I also added the FMS extender(man, I miss it for its simplicity). The a/f ratio was dead on at 11.5:1 after 4000 rpm. The problem I had was a lean condition below there. I bumped my base fuel pressure back up to 45psi vs. the 40psi I initionaly used. The A/F ratio was better down low but it went too rich up top. I just pulled more fuel out in the higher rpm's with the extender.

I think fuel pressure is very helpful in tunning a car. just my $.02

Sorry, Mark. I didn't mean to cut you off. lol Please add.

[Greg@GLD]

Mikey- I would sell the BTM for less than half off. They sell in Summit for $335. If you want it $150 plus shipping.

Greg- I know a local guy with a mild s-trim combo that runs mid 10's @ 1340mph with 42#'s and a FMU with a bleeder. I know they work they just take longer to dial in. A little of trial and error goes into tunning them. The hardest part is getting by the major hit the FMU puts on the fuel curve. It's my experience that a car with a larger injector and small FMU step up ratio ratio is easier to get the A/F steady. I think a huge jump like 40psi to 80+psi is hard to tune around. A 24# injector with a base fuel pressure at 40psi that jumps to 85psi end up flowing fuel like a 50# injector. That is a big jump in injectors. I think that is why people hate FMU's. They run too small of an injector and to compensate they run a big step up ratio in the FMU.

I would still say a adjustable FPR is good to use even with the extender. When I put the 42#'s (no FMU) in my car I also added the FMS extender(man, I miss it for its simplicity). The a/f ratio was dead on at 11.5:1 after 4000 rpm. The problem I had was a lean condition below there. I bumped my base fuel pressure back up to 45psi vs. the 40psi I initionaly used. The A/F ratio was better down low but it went too rich up top. I just pulled more fuel out in the higher rpm's with the extender.

I think fuel pressure is very helpful in tunning a car. just my $.02

Sorry, Mark. I didn't mean to cut you off. lol Please add.


No- see now we ARE on the same page. This is why I suggested he go to 30's and a re-callibrated FMU- the FP at full boost is much less than when using 19's. As for your results- hey, no argument from me, if you found good results, that's what counts. I ran 30's/re-cal FMU/EFI Extender/Kirban Regular with my Vortech along wth an MSD6BTM. I ran my plugs at standard gap with an MSD blaster coil.

[Mark302]

I actually thought that the FP didn't do much until I was at the dyno the last time. A change of 2#'s make the A/F about .25 different through out the powerband. But I also run 38's so I think you are right in saying FP won't change much for Mike with 19's. I run a 4 to one disk and my FP goes for 40 to 50 with 6#'s of boost. I agree with changing injectors with the 9#'s of boost for sure. But I personally really like the FMU. My A/F is very flat, but I also run an Extender which I am sure helps that.

[Greg@GLD]

Again, I was referring to the use of 19's, and you guys seem to understand my take on this. I thought with 19's the FMU will pretty much block the return line near 100% (I am sure it is pretty close!) so figure the AFPR isn't going to be able to do much, given the high fuel pressure already present under full boost. However, using a larger injector/re-calibrated FMU (like all three of us did or do) I think then it would make a difference.

Good discussion regardless.

So when is Mikey gonna blow a gasket or a belt?? :thud: (Just kidding Mikey!)

[Mark302]

So when is Mikey gonna blow a gasket or a belt?? :thud: (Just kidding Mikey!)

:eek2: :D

[bobtodd]

I will be having a Powerdyne here pretty soon too and I'll place bets I can blow a head gasket before Mike does...:)

[bobtodd]

I was just messing around. If I remember right I put in the Fel Pro 1011's??...not real sure. They were like $60 for the pair.

When I use to own that white 88gt I had no clue about cars, etc. I put a Powerdyne on that car which was completely stock except for an MSD ignition and coil. I had no problems, but thats not to say I didnt leave any problems for the next guy who bought it from me. It was probably running lean since it had the stock fuel pump in it. But as far as being able to strap a blower with 6#'s of boost on a completely stock car I had no drivability issues at all. The car ran awesome with it on there. But like I said, I had no clue about tuning a car, A/F ratio and fun things like that when you really start digging into things and making sure your car isn't getting hurt.

[Mark302]

I run the Fel 9333pt and they seem good so far. And they are $15 to $18. Also Mike , with 9lbs you NEED a blow off valve. which you Can get away without with 6lbs. I couldn't tell if you had one or not.

[bobtodd]

I ordered those 9333pt's and didnt feel like having to scrape every inch of my deck with a gasket scraper....that graphite is a pain. So I ordered the same gaskets that were already on my car(1011's). They basically peeled right off the block without hardly any mess. Maybe I'm just being a lazy ass.....

The nitrous is really cool and but I havent gotten much of a chance to really have fun with it yet. I want to try the 100 shot. I just want to see how a blower will work on my car. I am still going to keep the nitrous and everything in my car. If the blower doesnt work then I'll put it up for sale I guess.

[BlackLX]

I ordered the 6 lb pully today, will be here by friday. I will start small and go from there. Maybe I can get over by you or some tuning action. I think I will be safe with the 6 lb pully. So ill stick there till i upgrade other things.

Mark-I ordered a FPR also, is it worth it or should I send it back? I will be running stock components- IE injectors, ignition, maf, and tb for a while yet.

[BlackLX]

Mark-
PM me your phone number and when I can get a hold of you. Would like to talk.

thanx