Blower tuning

[flyin '85]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the site and to blower tuning. Does anyone know of a good shop here in wisconsin that does custom tuning for individual combos ???? The only shop I can think of the is even remotely close to here is Anderson in Illinois but that is 270 miles away........Any advice would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks in advance,
Jason

[Want Notch]

Isn't there a place in Appleton or Fond du Lac area?

[NO CHANCE]

Plainfield, Illinois.

Dynotune
847 347 5331
Ask for Mike Post.

Mike is tuning my 600+ rwhp street car, he can help you.

[Mark302]

Where are you from?

[flyin_hawaiin]

Hello everyone,
I am new to the site and to blower tuning. Does anyone know of a good shop here in wisconsin that does custom tuning for individual combos ???? The only shop I can think of the is even remotely close to here is Anderson in Illinois but that is 270 miles away........Any advice would be greatly appreciated....

Thanks in advance,
Jason

what computer system are you using?? Mike is handy with the PMS, but does not know other systems..

[Greg@GLD]

What is your total combo and what are your goals? Looking for a pump gas tune or a ragged-edge race gas tune? Knowing what you have in the way of a combo would help these guys like Bob point you in the right direction.

[flyin '85]

Thanks for your responses guys,
The combo is listed below. My dad just bought this car and I want to help him get it dialed in. Right now the car runs the stock computer system with an FMU. I would like to remove the FMU, put in bigger injectors, recalibrate the mass air and just have a custom tune written for the bigger injectors. I would like a pump gas friendly, safe for track abuse type of tune. Mark 302, I live in Hartford WI. Hope this helps, let me know if you have anymore questions......

Vortech supercharger (9 psi)
TFS Street-Heat (High-Port) Aluminum Heads: Ported
Steeda #18 Cam
TFS 1.6 Roller rockers
GT-40 intake manifold
Ford Racing 65mm throttle
Pro-M 77mm Mass Air Meter
High Volume fuel pumps (255 lph in tank) (t-rex inline)
Ford Racing 24 lb/hr fuel injectors
Headman Ceramic coated 1-3/4” long tube headers
2-1/2 inch H Pipe
Flowmaster mufflers
2-1/2 inch Dynomax tailpipes

[Greg@GLD]

Right off the bat I would say ditch the 24's and FMU. Go to 42's at least. Rather than getting a chip burnt, you might want to look into a piggy-back controller. For the price of a chip and a dyno tune you could get a used PMS system for this car (assuming it's a '93 or earlier) I couldn't find one for my '94 so I bought new, but I would have bought one used if I could have. Bob Kurgan and some other guys with blower experience hang out at www.stangtuning.com which is an excellent website, you might want to check that out.

With my old blower combo, I had an FMS EFI Extender. It was easy to tune with it because it was so simple and basic, but it is very limited as to what it can do. I am in the process of learning all over again with the PMS system. It can do much more than the Extender and there is a bit of a learning curve. Feel like a newbie all over again, and I have years of Mustang experience.

Thanks for joining us here by the way! :D

[quietflow]

Like Greg said ditch the 24#'s even with the FMU thats not alot of injector for the combo you are running.

[Want Notch]

Is yours the black four-eye with crome cobra R's I saw last week in Hartford?

[flyin '85]

Oh yeah sorry,
The car is a 1991. The car runs pretty strong right now, but I agree, I would like to ditch that setup and go to some bigger injectors. The problem is most of my experince is in carbed or n/a setups. The only thing I am not comfortable doing right now is actual computer tuning itself. I do understand how the FMU works and stuff and I just don't care for it. I guess what I don't know is what I can change on my own. Another thing I didn't know about was that the FMS extender allowed you to do a little tuning. How much can you change with one of the piggy back controllers ???? and how do you change it ????? Do you need a labtop ???? Something to monitor A/F ?????

[flyin '85]

Another thing......
Thanks for the welcomes guys. My car is a red 85 4 eye with a 347. I will post some pics later. I am getting married this weekend(thanks for the condolences) so I am pretty busy. The car in question is a white '91 LX. I will put some pics of that up too. My dad bought the car on the corral, the address for that add is below

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=515977

[Greg@GLD]

With the Extender, you use a table of A/F ratio selections and twist an adjustment dial to select them. As long as you have the fuel pressure at "stock" the tables are pretty close, but it is always a good idea to have a wideband 02 sensor/dyno to verify. I have found, as has Mark302, that the Extender is pretty reliable. It interfaces between the EEC and the wiring harness (like the PMS system) but it is very limited in that the adjustment is not varible by RPM, it is fixed thruout the RPM range. With the PMS, you can change a/f ratio in RPM increments. You can also connect a 3-bar MAP sensor and change the tune based on boost pressure. You can alter the tables for idle, part-throttle, etc. It's quite a device.

FMU- simple device that senses manifold pressure (boost) and blocks the return line at a ratio determined by the calibration. By blocking the return line, this causes fuel pressure to rise dramatically, mimicking larger injectors. This is not the best way to do things however- couple reasons- One is that they tend to be pig-rich, and the other is that they cause an initial spike in fuel pressure. As Adam mentioned, 24's are really not a good idea, the LEAST you should have are 30's but as long as you plan to upgrade, 42's would be about perfect for the listed combo. I had 30's with mine and went lean on hard throttle, but my combo is a bit more radical.

[Greg@GLD]

Red. 347. I like it already!!! :D :D

4-eyed stangs rock. I love the style.

[flyin_hawaiin]

any thing 36lbs inj and up will work.... if you choose to go the NON FMU route, just turn the base up to 50psi and work off that.... you will need to tune drivability and idle, but WOT will be safe..

if you go with an FMU, your drivability will be easier, but WOT will be much more difficult because of the way the FMU comes in under boost...

I am currently in the process of getting all my superchips custom tuning burners and chips... I have the software, but i havent had time to play with it much... I will be ready in about 3 weeks...

[Greg@GLD]

any thing 36lbs inj and up will work.... if you choose to go the NON FMU route, just turn the base up to 50psi and work off that.... you will need to tune drivability and idle, but WOT will be safe..

if you go with an FMU, your drivability will be easier, but WOT will be much more difficult because of the way the FMU comes in under boost...

I am currently in the process of getting all my superchips custom tuning burners and chips... I have the software, but i havent had time to play with it much... I will be ready in about 3 weeks...


Bob are you moving away from PMS tuning? Or do you not use it on your Renegade car anyway?

[quietflow]

Sorry for the Hijack but I am planning a blower next spring and have 36lbs sitting here waiting. Am I going to be dissapointed going with a FMU and the 36lbs or can I use a PMS with those?

[flyin '85]

Wow,
I am so used to waiting 3 days for two BS responses on the corral, thanks for taking time guys. I am guessing "flyin hawaiin" is Bob Kurgan. If so, your car rocks !!! I have watched you run many times. I really like the way that car looks !!!! I would really like to stay away from the FMU I guess. Where do you guys test ???? I have access to a Lamba a/f meter, can I use that and tune my part throttle stuff on the street ???? If I set the base pressure to 50, do I use that setting as a baseline and dial it down to lean out the part throttle settings ????? Also I have heard the duty cycle on the cranking table is fixed, will the cranking table be too fat with the 42 lb/hr injectors ????

[flyin_hawaiin]

Bob are you moving away from PMS tuning? Or do you not use it on your Renegade car anyway?

not at all... I use the PMS on my car now (it pays contingency).... I have used the EPEC on my car... I tune FAST and Gen VI DFI..

I am starting to play with the SCT software because I have so many customers who dont have a piggyback or standalone system.. Ive just been so busy with racing and tuning other cars this year that I havent had a chance to order what i need and mess with the software..

as far as your car is concerned, lemme know when you get your PMS and are ready to go.. I do all my tuning at Speed Inc in schaumburg (dynojet 248c)... If you are willing to come down, i will make it worth your while..

[flyin_hawaiin]

Sorry for the Hijack but I am planning a blower next spring and have 36lbs sitting here waiting. Am I going to be dissapointed going with a FMU and the 36lbs or can I use a PMS with those?

36lbs and an FMU will work fine with a PMS... itll have an area where its overly rich, but overall, it should be fine... Try and get a 2004 PMS so you can tune every 500rpm..

[flyin_hawaiin]

Wow,
I am so used to waiting 3 days for two BS responses on the corral, thanks for taking time guys. I am guessing "flyin hawaiin" is Bob Kurgan. If so, your car rocks !!! I have watched you run many times. I really like the way that car looks !!!! I would really like to stay away from the FMU I guess. Where do you guys test ???? I have access to a Lamba a/f meter, can I use that and tune my part throttle stuff on the street ???? If I set the base pressure to 50, do I use that setting as a baseline and dial it down to lean out the part throttle settings ????? Also I have heard the duty cycle on the cranking table is fixed, will the cranking table be too fat with the 42 lb/hr injectors ????

thanks for the PROPS!! If you ever come across come money, my car is always for sale :)

as far as tuning drivability on the street with a lambda meter, that will work great.. depending on how well your MAF is calibrated will determine how much tweaking you will need to do..

as I told greg, if you are interested in coming down to Schaumburg, i dyno cars at speed inc all the time... I cannot discuss how much for my services, but i can say the dyno time usually is less then 2hrs ($200).. For the thousands you have in your car, a few hundred more for the right tune isnt so bad...

[quietflow]

You are right about Bob Krugan, and there is a bunch of great guys that really know their stuff on here. Sounds like you are no rookie either, and are in the right direction. I am just starting to learn about the FMU's and PMS as well seen as I am going with a blower in the spring!!:) Good Luck I am sure you will get the info you are looking for here!

[flyin_hawaiin]

You are right about Bob Krugan, and there is a bunch of great guys that really know their stuff on here. Sounds like you are no rookie either, and are in the right direction. I am just starting to learn about the FMU's and PMS as well seen as I am going with a blower in the spring!!:) Good Luck I am sure you will get the info you are looking for here!


who is Bob Kurgan?

[Fatstang]

who is Bob Kurgan?
:hehe:

[quietflow]

who is Bob Kurgan?

Fingers are faster than my eyes :thud:

[flyin '85]

Bob,
I would be happy to come down and dyno the car. Your shop is just what I was looking for. You are only about 120 miles away from me and you definetly are somone I trust. If you tell me what injectors to put in, I will send the mass air to pro-m, and then look into one of these piggy back systems. Where can you get these controllers ???? How much are they ?????
Props for your car ???? Hell yes !!!! I can honestly say that it is one of the biggest reasons I got into the 4 eyed stangs. That was when it was black and silver, I think I like it even better now !!!!!

[flyin_hawaiin]

Bob,
I would be happy to come down and dyno the car. Your shop is just what I was looking for. You are only about 120 miles away from me and you definetly are somone I trust. If you tell me what injectors to put in, I will send the mass air to pro-m, and then look into one of these piggy back systems. Where can you get these controllers ???? How much are they ?????
Props for your car ???? Hell yes !!!! I can honestly say that it is one of the biggest reasons I got into the 4 eyed stangs. That was when it was black and silver, I think I like it even better now !!!!!

your best bet is to try and pick up a USED PMS online somewhere... be it at corral.net or Ebay.com... you should be able to pick one up for about $500.... this will offer you unlimited tuning down the line... Pick up a set of 42lbs injectors from Alan Kennedy (fuelsystems.biz) and send your MAF out to be recalibrated... that would get you started in the right direction...

BTW, on the corral ad, it says the car made 467 SAE rwhp..... is that not right or is the drivability etc terrible?? In other words, why are you making changes?

[flyin '85]

Thanks for the advice,
The driveability is acutally pretty good. It pulls pretty strong, my car put down 372/355 at the wheels and it does feel stronger than mine but not until the boost/FMU start to come on. I am making the changes because I don't think that 24 lb/hr injectors are enough and I really don't want to run it lean. I also would rather not use an FMU. In my opinion they are a band-aid for fuel system tuning. I am very particular about my stuff Doing things with band-aids usually leads to doing it twice. I don't have any a/f data for car. I do have the HP/TQ graph but no a/f data. I want to know it is done right with good parts. I am doing this for my dad so I am doing things the same way I would my own. I will start searching for a used PMS. Is there anything to watch out for with those ???????

[1slo5.0]

who is Bob Kurgan?


:worshippy

[Cobrawife]

Bob I have everything I need now- 42's, Walbro 255 in tank, T-Rex, 80MM Mass Air with "PMS Calibration" and the PMS2004 w/3-bar MAP sensor, so let's rock and roll man!!! :D :D

(this is GREG on my wife's laptop! :D )

[BOSS LX]

flyin_hawaiin


My HERO!!!!!!! :rockon:

[flyin '85]

Greg/Bob,
How much difference is there between the PMS 2003 and 2004 controllers ????? I found a used 2003 on the corral for $400 but I am wondering if I should hold out for the 2004........