M/T Drag Radial controversy

[Greg@GLD]

We had discussed reasons why these are outlawed in the various sanctioned drag radial classes, and I told you guys it's because they work too well. This month's Race Pages addresses this directly; they are outlawed because they work TOO WELL.

I guess that says it all. Read what Rob Kinnan wrote about it here:

http://rpmag.com/editorscolumn/issue1104/editorscolumn1104.html

This paragraph (pasted without permission so somebody might sue me!)
has a rather ironic twist...

"But some good came out of it, and the racers did agree on a few things. One, they didn’t want to allow the new Mickey Thompson Drag Radial because it just works too damn good. And two, everybody agreed to allow coil-overs and mini-tubs for next year, so that will go into effect for 2005. As I write this, we’ve just finished the Route 66 race (yeah, I’m really late with this issue), and Clemmons has wrapped up the championship, using several .00 reaction times to do it. He deserves the championship, and we applaud and congratulate 2004 BFGoodrich Drag Radial Champion, Philip Clemmons!

I have said all along I think BFG is behind this "banning" of the obviously superior M/T DR's. After all, their entire ad campaign about "The World's Fastest Drag Radials" would be gone in one race, and I think any of us who has tried these tires KNOWS this!!! They are the race series sponsor.

Something smells to me and it ain't burning rubber guys.... :rolleyes:

[Greg@GLD]

It's tainted and it SUCKS if you ask me, but that's just my take...

[Nick 1]

Big Money, always rules !!!!!!!!!! You should know that by now.

The M/T's work on my street car & I can buy them as needed. That works for me.



The Drag Radial racers would fly on a set of M/T's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Nick 1

[Ghost]

I agree its all about the money

[LangeStang]

If you ask me that's just sick!!!!!! What's going to be next?
"Oh,your disqualified for having ____ co's spark plugs in your car" & so on & so on!!!!!!!
Quite petty if you ask me!!!!!!!!
LangeStang

[MAT88GT]

they sponsor more than the dr classes...bfg is a major sponsor for ffw/nmra/wfc meaning they give money toward the entire shabang, hence they're in a strong possition to say, "ban this tire or we take our cash and walk"

though mt is also a huge contributor, they're dwarfed by bfg's commitments

[dave bandt]

Let's look at this from a different angle instead of cynicism. The NMRA promotes a racing series. Their SSO class is now a 7.70 - 7.80 second class and DR is 8.30-8.50. If they allowed the MT's the class would immediately drop to the 8.0 range. I don't see the logistics of promoting two classes that are so close in ET's as from a spectator's standpoint many won't be able to distinguish between the two. When you couple this with the fact that the DR class has always been tire limited....and they've used that fact to keep the cost somewhat in check......I can see where they would not want the M/T's. If they were to do that the nitrous combos would almost immediately be obsoleted because they are already having enough problems keeping up. A full blown canted valve SSO engine is what the nitrous guys would need and even then it wouldn't be enough to keep up unless they pulled A LOT of weight out of them. Lastly, the argument most of the DR regulars use is that a large amount of class appeal is that it is a driver's class. You can't just mash the gas and go. The M/T's are supposedly so much better than the BFG's that a lot of guys feel that this aspect of the class would be lost. One could argue that the M/T would be at that same point if you made another 200HP or so. But then again, at that point you've got an SSO car with a radial on it....and the argument goes back to what i said earlier about having almost identical classes.....which isn't very smart from a marketing standpoint. Long story short....they shouldn't have given these guys so much power so fast. That has killed a lot of classes. After all, look what it did to Pro.

[Greg@GLD]

Nice post Dave.

I think it says a lot about hw good those tires are. So what BFG says in their ads is somewhat tainted IMHO, but that's a different discussion...!

[BBATCO1]

The EFI renegade cars are in the mid-eights with alot more limits. If there is a will there is a way. Racers aren't going to de-tune, or sit idley by either. Most die-hard HP freaks will put in the time and money to get it moving-out regardless of the limitations. M/t tires would maybee make it easier, but either way they WILL go FASTER regardless.

I will only say this in defense of BFG they are a "radial tire maker", and that is there version of a race tire. Coming from a street tire manufacturer that aint half bad. Now on the other hand Mickey Thompson makes there money selling a much stickyier brand of tire. Now with that said whos do you think would work better?? Don't get me wrong when my new hooptie gets new tires they will be of the M/t variety, but I don't class race that car so ohh well...

[BBATCO1]

On the same note who though guys with stock cams would go mid-nines? With 26x10 slicks, and a stick....All of those classes are beyond anything a normal street type racer could afford....

[NMRA7251]

The thing is this though. The SSO class record is already a 7.50 and even if a new DR record goes to a 8.10 you are on average talking about a .3-.4 difference. Look at where PS is compared to RS. RS is running high 9.6's all the way to 10.teens and Rich Groh has run in the 10.50's so you have not much of a difference there either. There is a big difference in alot of the cars and the classes but not much in the way of times anymore. I think some of the tire issue is the fact that BFG wants to keep face with all their DR customers, and some of it has to do with the fact that M/T just couldn't originally produce enough tires for the NMRA to deem them "Commerically Available" as of yet. Phil Clemmons already set a new DR record this year running in the .30's on the BFG's. From what I understand the new M/T isn't that close to being a DR anyway. I would love to try a set, but as far as classes getting to close in ET's...they aready are.

[Greg@GLD]

Well, I think they are a drag radial in the truest sense of the word. They have a thick tread pattern that is actually useful in poor weather, the sidewalls don't wallow like a bias-ply, and they of course are DOT rated. In that regard they are the real deal. Seems politics is more at work here, but that's just an opinion. You should try a set though Damon, everyone I know that has gotten a set loves them. I have been driving all over with mine and they are wearing pretty good and you really don't have to do any sort of burnout with them either.

[NMRA7251]

We do plan on getting a set for next season. Since MM is a open comp style class I can run whatever I want. I am just worried that they will have a very short life span on them. The nitto's that I have been running have lasted over two years now. Does Fastimes have the M/T?

[Kirk]

Yes,

That's where Greg got his.

[Greg@GLD]

Yea they do. Just talk to John.
As for wear, they won't last like Nittos will, but they hook so much better than Nittos it's not funny. Mine are holding up pretty good, I have like 65 passes on them and have driven to WIR, GD several times, and back and forth to Chicago, they still have 80% of the tread left on them...

[QTRMILE]

I remember at the beginning of the NMRA season there was a lot of discussion on these in F/S. My understanding at the time was they disallowed them because they were simply not widely available, so they outlawed them for just this season. At least that was the official statement made regarding them in F/S early on.

I think these tires are sort of a mixed blessing. They are hella cool for regular guys to be able to drive around on something that hooks well on the street as well as the track; but like it was mentioned before I enjoy seeing the traction limited nature of the Drag Radial class. Nothing is cooler than seeing those cars leave easy like a shopping cart and start pulling like an F-16 at about the 330' mark. Unreal...

[Greg@GLD]

I understand that aspect of it Rob, but I also see these BFG ads calling them "The World's fastest Drag Radials" but I think that the M/T's are so good (and apparently so do others) that they would smash all the records in short order if they were legalized...

I still think it's partly about who's money is going where. Would be interesting to see a bonafide shootout between the companies using one of the top racers for a "constant"

[BBATCO1]

I still think it's partly about who's money is going where. Would be interesting to see a bonafide shootout between the companies using one of the top racers for a "constant"[/QUOTE]

That would be cool, but my money would be on big daddy....

[Johnnystang]

I run Factory Stock in the NMRA. Only can run drag radials in the class. We cannot use MT's. Its not that they work too well, but about politics. It has to do between James Lawerance of the NMRA and Mickey Thompson. BFG sponsors Factory Stock and Drag radial Classes, but THEY DON"T pay contingency for us. How is that possible. I want the MT's, but again because JL doesn't want them, we can't use them.

[Greg@GLD]

Welcome to MMA johnnystang.

I figured it was politics... ;)

[dufkis]

Ok I am a little late on this but all I will say is my M/T's are like 1000X better than my BFG's were.

[Nick 1]

I run Factory Stock in the NMRA. Only can run drag radials in the class. We cannot use MT's. Its not that they work too well, but about politics. It has to do between James Lawerance of the NMRA and Mickey Thompson. BFG sponsors Factory Stock and Drag radial Classes, but THEY DON"T pay contingency for us. How is that possible. I want the MT's, but again because JL doesn't want them, we can't use them.

What a surprise. :rolleyes:


Nick 1

[toolguy]

Yea they do. Just talk to John.
As for wear, they won't last like Nittos will, but they hook so much better than Nittos it's not funny. Mine are holding up pretty good, I have like 65 passes on them and have driven to WIR, GD several times, and back and forth to Chicago, they still have 80% of the tread left on them...

Have you driven these in any wet weather? If so, how do they work?

[Johnnystang]

Welcome to MMA johnnystang.

I figured it was politics... ;)


Hey thanks Greg, good to be here. I was told about the site from a fellow racer, so i thought i would join up.

[Nick 1]

Was it our mutual friend Trevor ???????




Nick 1
:D

[Johnnystang]

Actually no, it was from pure street racer Darrin Carter, I just found out he lives like 5 minutes from me....lol

[Nick 1]

Actually no, it was from pure street racer Darrin Carter, I just found out he lives like 5 minutes from me....lol

:thumbs_up



Nick 1