View Full Version : Got My 351!!!!! Questions........
SeeNRed69
10-30-2004, 04:55 PM
today I got my 351W. Props to Fritz for helping me. Got it home and ripped it apart, Man is it in good shape; down to the pistons, heads and cylinder walls. What should I do with all of the internals and the heads? The tranny I beleive is a C-6. What is a "safe" boring size for the block? I'm building the motor for GLD, with a reasonable budget. Nothing fancy, just fast.
QTRMILE
10-30-2004, 07:26 PM
have the block sonic checked, otherwise it will be guesswork on how much you can bore it.
SeeNRed69
10-30-2004, 09:46 PM
What is a "safe" boring size without comprimizing the integerity of the block? Anyone?
1slo5.0
10-31-2004, 06:09 AM
Like QTRMILE said, have it sonic checked at a machine shop. That way you will know for sure how far you can take it.
QTRMILE
10-31-2004, 08:42 AM
it depends. Like I said, you really need to sonic check it. Or bore it the least amount you need to in order to clean it up. Which is what I like to do anyway, that way you've got future boring room...
Are you going with a huge valved head that you need to unshroud?
Greg@GLD
10-31-2004, 08:53 AM
.040 is as far as you want to go with a 302 Dan.
SeeNRed69
10-31-2004, 11:49 AM
The block is out of a 77 van. Fritz and I pulled the ID Badge off of the tranny to see if we could tell what it is. The numbers goes as follows.
PGD AC2 B17
D7UP SA 038954
Anybody have an idea what it is. Looks like a C6.
Greg@GLD
10-31-2004, 12:00 PM
Todd, from 1972-77 Ford used C5's in Econolines. Starting in '75 some came with C6's. SO it's either a C5 or a C6. You would do better to run a C4, it's smaller, lighter, less parasitic loss and can be built to withstand plenty of HP. (I think this was mentioned previously by Mat or Rob or someone else in your other thread)
SeeNRed69
10-31-2004, 12:04 PM
I think a T-5 is going to be the end result. Unless I can find a good C4 within reason.
Greg@GLD
10-31-2004, 12:07 PM
a 351 with a T5? I thought you said you were building a drag car???
SeeNRed69
10-31-2004, 07:38 PM
is that unheard of? The 351 is going to be stroked to a 377 or 408. Am I correct in assuming that a T-5 will not hold up to the abuse?
Nick 1
10-31-2004, 07:44 PM
is that unheard of? The 351 is going to be stroked to a 377 or 408. Am I correct in assuming that a T-5 will not hold up to the abuse?
It will live for a little while, but not Long !!!!!! ;)
Nick 1
SeeNRed69
10-31-2004, 07:47 PM
Maybe Fritz and I can build the C5 or C6 up to handle the abuse. Still haven't figured out what the tranny is that came attatched to the 351W.
Greg@GLD
10-31-2004, 08:57 PM
It will live for a little while, but not Long !!!!!! ;)
Nick 1
Maybe 300 feet or so...
Maybe Fritz and I can build the C5 or C6 up to handle the abuse. Still haven't figured out what the tranny is that came attatched to the 351W.
Is the bellhousing a seperate bolt-on piece or is the case all one piece?
1slo5.0
11-01-2004, 04:06 AM
Maybe Fritz and I can build the C5 or C6 up to handle the abuse. Still haven't figured out what the tranny is that came attatched to the 351W.
Buy a PA C4. It will handle all the abuse a small block can throw at it.
SeeNRed69
11-01-2004, 07:18 AM
the case is all one piece.I would like to use the tranny that I already have. Just throw a good rebuild in it and go. Are there any sites that would be able to tell me what those ID numbers mean?
Greg@GLD
11-01-2004, 08:01 AM
the case is all one piece.I would like to use the tranny that I already have. Just throw a good rebuild in it and go. Are there any sites that would be able to tell me what those ID numbers mean?
Todd...
You asked for advice on building a "drag car" for GLD. But it sounds like you're really looking to build a mild street car? You have to keep in mind that drag racing is VERY hard on the car, the abuse put on the driveline is tremendous. With that said, you have to formulate a plan to match the total combo you have. If you plan to build a stroked 351-based engine, you can't expect to get by with a weak transmisson. Sounds like you're also overlooking a convertor as well, which you will need if you plan to be able to launch your stroker combo. You're looking to put together a motor that is going to be able to produce some serious torque dude. Stock T5's and "basic rebuilds" of a stock automatic aren't going to cut it, you'll be broke and unable to race in short order.
Think about these things- If you do go with a C4, you will not have any OD gear. If you plan to drive the car to GLD, this will cause your gas mileage to be crap and it's going to get expensive. If you plan to build a "drag car" then you will need a trailer, and vehicle to tow that trailer, and a place to store it. Think about all those things. As for the car itself? Well, besides building a strong motor, to go with it you will need a strong and dependable transmission, if that trans is a auto, then a good converter and valve body mods are going to be required as well. Add a strong rear to the plan. It costs $$ to do it right. When you put you plan together, you have to look at all these things.
Not trying to rain on your parade, just want you to think, because I'm going to be blunt-honest: Over the years I have been doing this, I have seen several guys take the approach you are, and what ends up happening in time is a "fire sale" in the classifieds because they get in too deep and can't finish the project or don't finish it because of frustration.
I suggest that you look for these type of situations and buy the parts! :D Look for a used Tremec TKO and have Fritz go thru it. Look for new parts that some guy has bought but has lost interest in. Bargains are out there.
Play your cards right, you could build a nice car for less than you may think.
Twirkin50
11-01-2004, 08:34 AM
Buy good quality parts for the type of driving you are looking to do, otherwise your car will find your weakest link of parts every time you abuse it. In the long run you will end up spending twice as much if you try to take short cuts. Just my .02.
MAT88GT
11-01-2004, 10:39 AM
Todd, from 1972-77 Ford used C5's in Econolines. Starting in '75 some came with C6's. SO it's either a C5 or a C6. You would do better to run a C4, it's smaller, lighter, less parasitic loss and can be built to withstand plenty of HP. (I think this was mentioned previously by Mat or Rob or someone else in your other thread)
c5 didn't come out until 80-81 but the c5 is actually a better starting point than a c4...you can bolt a c4 bellhousing to the c5 and have the advantage of an upgraded set of internals and well engineered hydraulics in the case. Big name c4's are built using left over c5 parts, no bs here. Though any c4/c5 can easilly be built to withstand the abuse of a built 302/351 based motor.
Greg@GLD
11-01-2004, 05:36 PM
c5 didn't come out until 80-81 but the c5 is actually a better starting point than a c4...you can bolt a c4 bellhousing to the c5 and have the advantage of an upgraded set of internals and well engineered hydraulics in the case. Big name c4's are built using left over c5 parts, no bs here. Though any c4/c5 can easilly be built to withstand the abuse of a built 302/351 based motor.
To further muddle the picture, I found another "Ford Transmission History" page that said the c5 didn't come into production until 1982. :D After finding one that said 77... Yikes...
http://www.baumannengineering.com/alphabet.htm
portponies
11-01-2004, 06:39 PM
Todd's tranny does not have a removeable bell-housing. It's all one piece.
1slo5.0
11-01-2004, 06:58 PM
Todd's tranny does not have a removeable bell-housing. It's all one piece.
Its probably an FMX trans. Those were common in 1/2 ton trucks and vans. They have no use in the performance world.
SeeNRed69
11-01-2004, 07:24 PM
There has to be someone or a site that can tell me what the numbers on the ID tag mean. Here are those #'s again.
PGD AC2 B17
D7UP SA 038954.
Please someone HELP!!!!
Are the FMX's cast iron case with external lines? I'm certain a C6 is aluminum.
1slo5.0
11-01-2004, 07:34 PM
Yes, FMXs are cast iron and C6s are aluminum.
http://pages.prodigy.net/kennethl6/_uimages/C6panID.jpg
One piece case has to be a C6. I found out that FMX has removable bellhousing also.
MAT88GT
11-02-2004, 02:31 AM
yep...fmx uses a 164 tooth flexplate and removable housing which can be swapped onto a c4/c5
early 80's sounds good to me Greg :)
tag info http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/c4/Tags.gif
SeeNRed69
11-02-2004, 05:30 PM
If ONLY a C6 has the pan with a notch out of it, then mine is a C6.
onewickedstang
11-08-2004, 11:41 PM
.040 is as far as you want to go with a 302 Dan.
my 302 was .060 and has been together for 8 years and seen numerous trips to 7200 rpm. it was just freshened this past summer when i pulled it to put the 393 in. i just couldn't seem to kill that damn motor.
Greg@GLD
11-09-2004, 06:24 AM
my 302 was .060 and has been together for 8 years and seen numerous trips to 7200 rpm. it was just freshened this past summer when i pulled it to put the 393 in. i just couldn't seem to kill that damn motor.
I didn't say you "couldn't" bore it past .040, but I think you will find most builders will agree that .040 is about as far as you ought to go.
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