Kenne Bell vs New setup

[SMOKD U]

Well, how fun would owning a car be if you could not change it every year. I realized that the KB would just never get me the goals I wanted. I loved the blower and it will make a great blower for someone in the 11 SEC zone. I switched over to a Vortech and I hope this will keep it more simple for me. I liked the fact that I was different with the KB but the facts are that Vortechs are faster in the long run. I hope that I do not regret this switch but only time will tell.

its not fun unless you can change every year. i think im nuts sometimes but hey we are all car crazy anyway.

[Mark302]

Cool!!! Right now the fastest stock shortblock mustang in the country has a KB 2.2. With 18lbs.

[SMOKD U]

well i think the slowest vortech is still faster hehe

[SMOKD U]

BTW was that on a cobra 03? they have an intercooler that flows better. plus the 4 valve engines seem to work better. have not heard of any 302's in the 9s yet but i might be wrong. there is a 331 in the nines with 20 plus pounds of boost and a custom intercooler. i just thiink that with 20 psi boost with a vortech you will be faster. trust me im a KB guy and i would love to stay with it. but facts are fact.

[Mark302]

It is a stock 302 in a fox body Mustang.

[Kool Rock Steady]

Let us know the differences. KB has more tq I bet

[Mark302]

/9.89@136.69/cobra/stock TFS heads/Ecam/KB2.2L blowzilla. That is his info. He is now number 2 on the list of 50 fastest stock shortblock cars on the Corral.

[SMOKD U]

hmm ill have to check it out. that would make him one of the fastest cars with a kb fox body ever. is his name Joe Z. if so i beleive it. if not i would like to see it because the word has not got out over the Kb sites yet and i think i would have heard it. if so maybe i should keep the blower hehe. what to do. what to do.

[SMOKD U]

i do believe they have torque just ask my trannys, but really my 60ft is not that much better with 16 psi boost and 75 shot nitrous than most vortech cars. my 60ft was 1.57
so having said that how much torque can i be missing at that point that i can't makeup on the long track

[upngo50]

Positive displacement blowers like the KB twin screw will have gobs of torque at the low and mid range because the amount of boost is the same though out the entire rpm range. That is what makes them so favorable to the street crowd cuz lets face it that low end torque on the street is awesome. Where as a centrifical Vortech takes a little turning before the boost gets crankin so they naturally will suffer in the low end of the torque just because the pump isn't as effiecient at low RPM's, but once the R's get up then look out..centrifical blowers will kick a roots style or twin screw on the top end every time.

[SMOKD U]

well if they are so much better on the low end why are my 60fts and 330 the same or slower than the vortech guys. they must get moving in a hurry also

[Mark302]

I think that the Vortec cars that you are talking about had a lot of other parts that got their cars moving before they even really get into boost. My honest opinion is that if you keep you roots and change heads etc you would be right with the Vortec guys.

[upngo50]

Don't know the answer to that. Maybe something in your chassis set up, the fact that your car is a vert, are the vortech people spooling it up, using a manual or auto tranny? Don't know...

Positive displacement blowers provide the same amount of boost through out the RPM range and centrifical blowers increase boost as RPM's increase. That is where the big difference is between the two styles of blowers. Centrifical blowers are more efficient providing bigger gains in power because of lower air charge temps.

[upngo50]

I think that the Vortec cars that you are talking about had a lot of other parts that got their cars moving before they even really get into boost. My honest opinion is that if you keep you roots and change heads etc you would be right with the Vortec guys.

I totally have to agree with James here...

[SMOKD U]

well do you think i should put the KB on my new motor and see what it does. man im so up in the air about this. maybe ill keep both . and see for myself what i like better. this is a tuff move. if im in the low 10s the the kb i would be happy i guess.

[upngo50]

I personally would keep the KB if you do alot of street driving with your stang. They have the best street manners and are the funnest for everyday cruising, but that is only my opinion. If the car was raced more than cruised, then I would definitely put on a centifical supercharger or even better yet..turbo.

[Kool Rock Steady]

I can't remember how the KB routes for the air intake. Why not use BOTH!! lol

[SMOKD U]

hehe i thought of that all i would have to do is bolt on the vortech. but im sure it would not work. would it? hehe

[86merc]

Trying the KB and then the Vortech would be a cool experiment. To see what effects the different blowers have on power output and performance with the same supporting parts.

Or....

Just sell the KB and the Vortech and buy a turbo!

[SMOKD U]

well i think maybe i will do that put the kb on and see how i like it. then switch to the vortech. it really is not that hard to change over. then we all will noe these hard questions

[flyin_hawaiin]

the 2 blowers would require different cams to get the most out of them BTW..

[Twirkin50]

well if they are so much better on the low end why are my 60fts and 330 the same or slower than the vortech guys. they must get moving in a hurry also

Don't you have stock suspension and the stock rear end? This could be a big factor seeing as most of the vortech guys have thousands into their rear setup. Not to mention that your running a heavy vert. I mean a 2800lb notch with a vortech and suspension will have a lot better 60ft than a vert with a KB and stock parts. Just my .02

[1slo5.0]

I think you need to look at the big picture here Mark and not just focus on horsepower. You said a couple months back that you weren't leaning on your car very hard because you have a stock rearend. So if you weren't leaning on it very hard then maybe it will go 10.50s with your current set up. Number one put a good rear end in the car, number 2 put a good suspension in the car, number three put some good heads and a Jay Allen or Ed Curtis cam in the car. I can't comment on the blowers because I don't really know which one is better. I can tell you though that the items I mentioned will need to be changed regardless of which one you choose if you want to maximize your combination.

[QTRMILE]

I think you need to look at the big picture here Mark and not just focus on horsepower. You said a couple months back that you weren't leaning on your car very hard because you have a stock rearend. So if you weren't leaning on it very hard then maybe it will go 10.50s with your current set up. Number one put a good rear end in the car, number 2 put a good suspension in the car, number three put some good heads and a Jay Allen or Ed Curtis cam in the car. I can't comment on the blowers because I don't really know which one is better. I can tell you though that the items I mentioned will need to be changed regardless of which one you choose if you want to maximize your combination.

I was JUST going to say that. You haven't even used your transbrake yet! Get the rear done up, get the tq boxes all reinforced like we talked about, then actually lean on what you have. I just don't see the logic in switching when you still have so much left on the table with the current combo...

[SMOKD U]

well i do believe that the cams are a biggy. heres the deal my new motor this year will be a 331 with a sportsman dart block. i was not planning on spinning past 6200 rpm so i went with anderson fords B31 cam. i know that there are better cams for vortech if you want rev past 7000 rpm. (that scares me) hehe. the heads with be trick flow twisted wedge with a port that should flow 281 at 500 lift and 220 exhaust. i was planning on keeping the KB and trying to run low 10's with 17 psi boost and my methn injection. last week a had a chance to buy this used (newer) blower S-trim at a great price so i did. all the KB guys say that i will not like to feel of the vortech (soft on the bottom) compaired to my Big Block Feel Now. but the fact is the vortect cars i have talked about all weight close to mine. i would love to keep the Kb and run low 10,s but is that Possable and it seems like it will be easier with the vortech. maybe i still will put the KB on the car and see myself. or do a test myself to see which one i like better (street and strip) well what to . what to do?

[1slo5.0]

Don't be afraid to rev it......I shift my 347 at 8500 in a stock block. As long as you put good parts in that Dart block and have a good engine builder, it will hold together.

[Mark302]

I really don't think that KB will be holding you back. I honestly don't know why you need n2o etc. for your car to get into the 10's last year. But low 10's are hard no matter what blower you have. How much RWHP did you make last year with out the n2o? With just the heads 31c.i. and cam you should gain about 100rwhp IMO. I think it takes about 560 to run low 10's with our cars.

[SMOKD U]

well im not really sure what my RWHP was but my car ran 125 and the weight is 3200 lbs. i think my best time without nitrous was 117 mph. i felt i needed it as an intercooler plus i wanted 10's hehe. so 10.81 with nitrous and 11.3 with out. you think my new motor and heads will make up that much hp from the 302 vs 331 ?

ps my old combo was

E303 CAM
ALUM X HEADS
16 PSI BOOST
80MM PRO M
42LB INJECTORS
KB 2.2
373 GEARS
C4 TRANNY LOW STALL 3000
AND IM ONE OF THE FASTER KBS OUT THERE SCAREY

[Greg@GLD]

Nobody seems to be focusing on CFM at all. Interesting.

[Mark302]

I would guess you should gain 1 tenth from the cam
3 from heads
3 from ci(331 vs 302)

7 tenths total so 11.3 to 10.6 and about 7 MPH.

That should put you right with all the Vortec guys with similiar parts.

[SMOKD U]

thx for the help i guess i will not know unless i just put the vortech on and try it. if im not happy than i can sell it and put on the KB ill keep both for now

[Twirkin50]

I didn't expect to see you selling the KB so quickly. Oh well, these days it seems everyone goes by what the last guy installed on his car to run 10's or 9's rather than trying something new. To run low et's with the same setup the guy next to you is running really doesn't prove much to me, but when a guy takes a setup all his own with off the wall parts and runs a low 10, he gets much respect from me. I really like seeing guys that use powerdyne's or KB's and run low et's just for the fact that its different. Not too much impresses me when you see a bunch of low et cars that basically all have identical setups revolving around an s trim. Oh well, to each his own.

[SMOKD U]

well the plan is at this point is to put the kb back on and see what it does. then ill take it from there

[Someguy]

Are you going to beef up the rear end? It seems your avioding it......

[SMOKD U]

WHY FIX SOMETHING THATS NOT BROKEN HEHE

YES mark williams rear end in the sites

[Greg@GLD]

I didn't expect to see you selling the KB so quickly. Oh well, these days it seems everyone goes by what the last guy installed on his car to run 10's or 9's rather than trying something new. To run low et's with the same setup the guy next to you is running really doesn't prove much to me, but when a guy takes a setup all his own with off the wall parts and runs a low 10, he gets much respect from me. I really like seeing guys that use powerdyne's or KB's and run low et's just for the fact that its different. Not too much impresses me when you see a bunch of low et cars that basically all have identical setups revolving around an s trim. Oh well, to each his own.


I think FWIW that anyone who assembles a decent combo, whatever it may be made up of, deserves respect, as there are plenty of people who can spend mounds of cash and not go that fast either. Using a proven combo and ending up with a reliable, fun and fast car is nothing to be ashamed of.
Perhaps there's a reason why Vortech combos are popular. maybe it's because they work well... :beer:

[Jesse James]

I've had both types of blower setups on either Mustangs/Cobras/Lightning.
The top end pull of a Vortech is phenominal around 3,500 rpm and up.
The twin screw obviously has the lower end grunt. I've seen both combos work great, I personally liked the twin screw low end grunt. Many arguments can be made for which is better i.e. faster, used by the winning racers etc. I just liked a well tuned 500rwhp twin screw, torque flat as a pancake from the lower end all the way to the redline. Guess it's up to the individual, good luck! :cool:

[BBATCO1]

I vote for mark james's powerdyne. He would kick all your asses!!!!!!

[Mark302]

Lol!!!

[BBATCO1]

Its was'nt a joke, but a example of maximized potential. The most bang for the buck so to say. If I was building a blower car you would be the one I asked for advice. The power you make comes within small margins of most of the blown stroker motors I know of. I did laugh while typing it though.

[Mark302]

Its was'nt a joke, but a example of maximized potential. The most bang for the buck so to say. If I was building a blower car you would be the one I asked for advice. The power you make comes within small margins of most of the blown stroker motors I know of. I did laugh while typing it though.

Thanks Bob! That is quite a compliment!

[SMOKD U]

FIRST PLACE
We'll begin our coverage with the quickest and fastest candidate at the shootout, Bernard L. Craft of Princeton, West Virginia. Craft and his lovely wife, Joyce, made the drive to E-town on Tuesday afternoon for the Wednesday shootout but, thanks to two days of persistent rain, the gathering had to be pushed back to Friday. The Crafts were nice enough to put their plans back home on hold and wait out the rain in a hotel until the sun came out on Friday. They spent the down time sightseeing in the center of the universe, exciting New York City.

It's a good thing Bernard stuck it out, because his street driven '88 Lincoln Mark VII LSC was the class of the field. The D.S.S.-built 331 was helped along by a Kenne Bell 2200 Flowzilla supercharger and a Randy Haywood tune up (of NMRA Super Street Outlaw and Mod-motor fame) and was backed by a manually shifted Art Carr AOD. This combo was good for a career best 11.37 at 120 mph and two other mid-11-second blasts--an 11.61 and an 11.54. Craft's previous best time was an 11.47 at 118 mph, which was done at "The Rock" in Rockingham, North Carolina, during a Ford Open Comp race.

Craft's Lincoln still wore the original silver paint on its sheetmetal and was purchased as a daily driver years ago before being turned into a racing machine. It had little problem yanking the left front wheel off the pavement and was the most exciting ride of the day. He explained that he was extremely close to building a four-cylinder Mustang (with a V-8 conversion), but decided on something a little bit different. Craft experimented with different fuel pressure settings in an attempt to run quicker but in the end, he loaded up for the drive home with his best pass ever and a huge smile on his face.

STRIP SPECS
Owner: Bernard L. and Joyce Faye Craft
Hometown: Princeton, West Virginia
Driver: Bernard L. Craft
Year/Model: '88 Lincoln Mark VII LSC
Weight w/driver: 3,890
Engine: 331ci short-block
Built by: D.S.S., Inc. and Bernard L. Craft
Intercooler: N/A
Power adder: Kenne Bell 2200 Flowzilla
Maximum boost/nitrous qty.: 14 psi
Intake manifold: Kenne Bell supercharger type
Cylinder head(s): TFS Twisted Wedge ported by Fox Lake
Compression ratio: 8.5:1
Camshaft(s): Comp Cams .533/.544-inch lift
Ignition: MSD Ignition Digital 7
Exhaust: DynoMax Ultraflow mufflers with 3-inch pipe
Transmission: manually-shifted Art Carr AOD
Converter/clutch: Art Carr 10-inch, 2,400 stall
Rear type: Traction Lock with Ford Racing 4.10 gears
Wheels: Centerline Meteor 17x8, Weld Draglite XP
Tires F/R: 28x10.5 M/T ET Drag (rear) and BFGoodrich G-Force T/A (front)
Suspension front: stock Lincoln air-ride
Suspension rear: stock Lincoln air-ride
Best e.t./mph: 11.37 at 120 mph


STRIP LOG
Run # ET/MPH
1 11.37 at 120.16
2 11.61 at 118.15
3 11.54 at 119.45


HMM 3800 LBS . IM 500 LBS LIGHTER AND 3 MORE LBS BOOST.MAYBE KB HAS A CHANCE FOR MID 10S