Adding to my current combo... [Archive]

View Full Version : Adding to my current combo...

BlackLX

12-31-2004, 07:00 PM

BlackLX

12-31-2004, 07:18 PM

I got 373s dan, bought them a while back. I guess if all else fails I'll finally go H/C/I this summer along with all the other stuff. I know somone that has a good deal right now and I may jump on it.

Jesse James

12-31-2004, 07:36 PM

I'm looking to start small.

My current combo consists of stock everything and 9 lbs of boost with a powerdyne(I am only seeing 6-7lbs on the gauge). The only mods I have is an upgraded fuel pump and MSD6btm with a 10* base and 2 on the btm dial. Full exaust also.

My question is this...If I upgrade just the injectors to 30#, matching maf, and a 65mm TB, will I see any significant increases? I know safety is a big concern, I dont want to run the pig dry wtih my stock 19#'s, so far no issues.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

IMO; very little if any gain. Increasing air flow and gas flow into the stock motor without giving the motor the ability to utilize the increases will not do you much good. Yes, the safety factor increases a bit with larger injectors. and a little more air i.e. larger MAF, but too big could actually hurt the performance and your motor. Without changing the heads and intake the gains obtained by larger injectors and MAF wont do much for your performance. A stock block 302 with 24lbr's, 65mm TB and a 75mm Mass Air Sensor is a great combo for a stock 302 with a blower @ 6-8psi. Just my $.02 :cool:

Greg@GLD

12-31-2004, 07:41 PM

With more fuel you could add a little more timing and see some improvement. Must be a reason you aren't seeing more boost though, as usually on a stock head/intake setup you will see more boost because of the restrictions. When you make the engine more efficient you tend to see a little less boost but much more power. (with the same pulley and inlet setup)

Greg@GLD

12-31-2004, 07:46 PM

I thought he still has the blower itself...

NitrousEdge

12-31-2004, 07:54 PM

Pullied for six pounds though...

BlackLX

12-31-2004, 08:25 PM

well that may be the next thing I need to figure out...why am I only seeing 6-7lbs with the 9 lb pully....

I always had that problem. hmm...

Mark302

01-01-2005, 10:47 AM

I am seeing 6lbs at 6700rpms with the 6lbs upper. Last year on the dyno with the 9lb pulley I saw 8.5lbs of boost at 6700. I think that Mike is seeing 7lbs at 5000rpms. I see guys making over 11lbs with a Powerdyne but I am not sure how reliable that is. It is possibly your belt os slipping. The 9lb upper very small.

Greg@GLD

01-01-2005, 10:52 AM

I was thinking belt too mark. I found out myself with my Vortech that you really have to crank that belt down tight to get the most from the boost. Mike, you could also try some of that VHT-type stuff on your blower belt just to see if you get any boost improvement.

BlackLX

01-01-2005, 02:17 PM

I'll try that guys...Getting the belt tighter.

Thanx again!

driver79

01-06-2005, 10:22 PM

Try shifting past 3500RPM! Let that motor stretch it's legs a little. Ok ok seriously though i think in your case Mikey it may be belt slippage. That VHT is suppose to be great, but I would bet that it attracts a lot of dirt on a street car.

Greg@GLD

01-06-2005, 10:28 PM

He let me beat on that car, I drove it like I stole it. :D

driver79

01-07-2005, 07:25 AM

How much Boost did you see Greg?

Greg@GLD

01-07-2005, 08:02 AM

Not enough... :D I tried to get Mikey to stare at the guages on the run (he rode along) it's clearly in need of something.

86merc

01-07-2005, 09:16 AM

For what it's worth my boost gauge and PMS never read the same vacuum or boost numbers. I trust the PMS and MAP sensor a little more than my AutoMeter gauge. Your gauge may be a little off.

Also with 10* of timming at idle the computer produces about 28* above 5000rpm. Now with your btm you are taking out 14* with 7# of boost. That gives you a total timming around 14*. That is way low for that kind of boost. Even at 6# your only at 16* total. With that timming you are down on power. I would try a base of 14* and set the BTM to 1. That will give you a still safe total timing of 18*.

I would say save the injector upgrade untill you do the H/C/I. Do you run a FMU? Put the car on the dyno with a wide band and get the A/F ratio and timing dialed in with what you have. For under $250 I bet you a good tunner can make more power with your current combo. Plus you will know everything is set up right.

Greg@GLD

01-07-2005, 09:28 AM

I've gone over all this with him already Mike... Maybe he will listen to you. :D

86merc

01-07-2005, 09:43 AM

Probably not. :rolleyes: LOL

Greg@GLD

01-07-2005, 09:49 AM

Mikey (BlackLX) we're just funnin' with ya buddy... :D

86merc

01-07-2005, 09:54 AM

We are? Oh um ya we are. haha just mess'n with ya.

We/I would like to see ya get down the track better than you are. I believe you could do it real easily too. :burnout:

driver79

01-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Mike had me set his timing at 10* because he does not want to run 93 octane all the time, he likes to run 87 because its cheap and he drives the car on the street mostly. He needs to decide if he wants to go fast or have an economical daily driver. At this point with his timing numbers and fuel choice it does not pay for him to have a blower, IMO- he is not seeing the benefits in power. Don't feel bad Greg he didn't listen to me either- Speed costs money- How fast do you want to go? H/C/I would help I'm sure but look at guys like Tim Stockwell... This is his combo- Bone stock 5.0 (h/c/i all stock) -blower -Injectors -MAF and PMS and he runs 10's. I'm sure he is running a fair amount of boost but this goes to show that it's all in the tune!

driver79

01-07-2005, 12:57 PM

Oh yeah, Tim drives that car as a daily driver! :rockon:

86merc

01-07-2005, 01:20 PM

First off what does running 87 vs. 93 save you? $1.5-$2.25 a tank? I know Mike does not have piles of money lying around but $1.5-$2.25 a tank is not much. Second that is why a BTM is nice. With initial timing set a 14 you dial in 2+ on the dial with 87 and when you put in 93 change the dial to 1. A lot easier than re-timming the car at the distributor.

Tim S. is a nice guy. I have e-mail'd and talked with him a few times. He ran a T trim with a 10rib and cogs too. Very impreesive numbers on the dyno and at the track. Not to take away from what he has done but......Tim ran meth, lots of timming, lean A/F ratios and blew a few head gaskets with it. I am sure Mikey does not want to have issues like that. :thud: But Tim does show what can be done with a "basic" combo.

I know Mikey is new to the blower game and a little afraid of it. Which is a good thing untill he learns more about it. But that car set up right should make fun power and be very reliable.

BlackLX

01-11-2005, 03:17 PM

I know Mikey is new to the blower game and a little afraid of it. Which is a good thing untill he learns more about it. But that car set up right should make fun power and be very reliable.

I think thats the ticket. Brian, I have been running 93oct. regardless and for some reason you guys don't think I listen, but I do. I know I need a proper tune/dyno time and I am just looking to get the best out of what I have. I think I will have to wait untill springl, I am constantly worried about detonation and I want the car to last me.

But I think it is time...I'll bump the timing as you say and turn the BTM down a notch. If I hear any pinging, I will have to bump the BTM back up though. Is there any way to prevent detonation? Maybe I just nee more fuel? I do run the FMU cal'd for 19#'s.

BlackLX

01-11-2005, 03:21 PM

Maybe I can get some Dyno time with Rossier- but what can actually be adjusted besides timing and the BTM?

Maybe that is everything I need...

86merc

01-11-2005, 03:28 PM

Good. Keep running 93 as it is cheap insurance.

You were just about to drop coin on injectors, mass air and TB. Just use that money to get the car tuned now. You should be safe with what you have untill you can afford more upgrades. :burnout:

86merc

01-11-2005, 03:31 PM

Maybe I can get some Dyno time with Rossier- but what can actually be adjusted besides timing and the BTM?

Maybe that is everything I need...

Timing is one thing and fuel is the other big thing. You can adjust fuel pressure at the regulator and with FMU discs to get a safe and smooth A/F ratio. FMU's are a hard to get a smooth A/F ratio sometimes but they are still very effective.

driver79

01-11-2005, 08:36 PM

Rossier's new owner is not the guy you want to tune your car. Buy a PMS and talk to Bob Kurgan. He's around this site often.

BlackLX

01-11-2005, 09:16 PM

Rossier's new owner is not the guy you want to tune your car. Buy a PMS and talk to Bob Kurgan. He's around this site often.

A PMS Brian? Thats big bucks...is it worth it for such a basic set up? I dont a an adj. FPR, but I can buy one.

So what should I do? Just take it in for a good solid tune? I suppose I could talk to Bob, as greg did, but will he even mess with such a small set up?

driver79

01-11-2005, 09:41 PM

I don't know of any Matt from there. Dave is the new owner, he has another shop in Point called D&D.

Mike, a PMS is not that expensive, especially not as expensive as the results from a bad tune. You spent the money to get the car this far, why not get it to run like it should. Maybe the best bet for you is a Superchip.

BlackLX

01-11-2005, 09:48 PM