valve lash

[scooter]

i went onto total engine airflows web site (where the heads were bought) to get instructions on adjusting the valve lash on my AFR stud mount heads and im kind of stumped as to 0 lash.
let me back up a bit. i had a little rocker noise and want to see if they are loose or im hearing things so i remove the covers and find TDC #1 the rockers are loose to the affect that i can move them not up and down but side to side ( scorpian rollers). so are they loose or what and when i follow the directions from TEA web site it says 0 lash then a 1/4 turn now is 0 lash no up and down movement but side to side ? HELP i dont want to over tighten the valves

[jdsgallops]

Skip the TEA website and just read a good chevy valve adjusting article. This is how I learned it. The easiest way to do this without alot of confusion is this.

#1 buy an old sheetmetal valve cover. You can find these on 70's model Fords.
#2 Remove only the top of the valve cover. Leave the sides! If not you will have a nice smoke show, mess and possibly fire.
#3 Start the engine with valve cover in place.
#4 back off on each rocker arm until you hear it tick.
#5 retighten the rocker arm until the tick goes away.
#6 go 1/4-1/2 turn on the polylock
#7 set the inside allen wrench screw
#8 Tighten the polylock while holding the set screw. I was told this is the proper way to tighten a polylock, and have had no rockers loosen since I went to this pratice.
#9 After completeing all rockers on that side turn engine off and repeat on the other side. Also at this time find a lifter that is on the base circle of the cam, IOW a valve that is closed. Observe the tension on the pushrod of this rocker. Once you have this feel you can get the setting closer with engine off and cold. At which point in time you only need the valve cover to double check your intial setting.

This is the system I have come to use after many years of adjusting and can now get the rackers almost dead on with the engine on the stand. I still like to double check when the engine is installed, running, and broke in.

[scooter]

that is the way my dad taught me years ago (old school) but i dont have time to find old covers to cut out but i will keep an eye out for a set. thanks john for the idea

[markstang]

what type of lifters do you have? hydraulic roller lifters should have 1/4-1/2 turn preload on them. 0 lash is when the push rod has no play or preload, yes the roller rocker will move side to side. do you have harden guide plates for the push rods? then the rockers should be free & not bind side to side. tighten the adj nut untill you feel the push rod just start to tighten up, that is 0 lash. then go 1/4-1/2 turn more.



Mark

[jdsgallops]

that is the way my dad taught me years ago (old school) but i dont have time to find old covers to cut out but i will keep an eye out for a set. thanks john for the idea

Should be able to find a set on Ebay. I actually got mine by chance when I was with a friend one day while he was getting parts from one of his friends. Cost a whole $5.

[upngo50]

Doing it with the engine running is nice yes cuz you can actually hear what is going on, but on the down side it is messy and hard to do with the an efi motor due to upper intake. To find zero lash is actually easier than you think. Bring which ever cylinder you working on to TDC. Now both lifter, pushrods, and rockers for that cylinder are now at equal heights with each other. Tighten down the rocker while you twist the pushrod clockwise counterclockwise between you fingers. You know like roll it between your fingers. When you can no longer rotate them with ease, that is zero lash. Give the nut 1/4 turn from there and you are set. I have found that method much easier and quieter without all the hot oil flyin' around.

Scott. You can give me a call tonight or tomorrow night and I can give you a hand if you would like. (920)729-6766 My '79 has 351W heads with studs. My '69 has studs also with harlon rollers and that is how I set both cars up.

[jdsgallops]

I think what both of you have missed is knowing exactly what the proper resistence is when turning the pushrod to find zero lash. It took me several engine builds to find this. Before I did, I often times ended up with the rockers on too tight, which is really not good for the engine. Using a valve cover on an EFI engine may be a PITA, but it is good insurance, IMO for someone that does not have alot of experience adjusting valves. Removing 6 bolts, the intake tubing and the linkage is not that big of deal. I could double check both sides of the engine on my carbed car in 10 minutes. Even if it is a 1/2 hour on an EFI it is time well spent.

[MAT88GT]

happy i have a solid roller ;) lash with feeler gauges on the stand, dial in when hot, forget about it until you have more runtime

[upngo50]

Uh I have been adjusting rocker arms like that for 8+ years and have had no issues. In fact any chevy guy will tell you the same thing.

Mark and I have basically said the same thing. He runs much faster cars then most people on the site or your locate track for that matter, so I don't think he is BSing any more than me on the proper way to set them. The way you are doing is indeed fine, but on cars with loud exhaust or fresh starts or for people that don't like to get full of hot oil........running the motor is definetly not the solution.

[jdsgallops]

And if you look at my method it is the same as both of your suggestions, only I suggest doing it a fool proof way until the person learns what he is looking for when doing it by hand.

In addition if you look at my full method you will see that I have spent much time in "perfecting" it, meaning those people, as you say that work "on cars with loud exhaust or fresh starts or for people that don't like to get full of hot oil" will most likely pay someone else to set the engine up, and can't get full of oil, that is the whole purpose of my valve cover suggestion! I find your defense of using car performance and experience silly.(and the comment "He runs much faster cars then most people on the site or your locate track for that matter" really made me laugh living in one of the hottest areas in the country when it comes to Mustang performance. Your mail ordering from the companies I drive to.) Experience means nothing to a person who hasn't done it before. What does matter is a person with the experience being able to help the questioner in a way that they are able to do it and feel comfortable. This is exactly what I suggested doing, doing it a way that he has done before and is comfortable with, while observing the results to obtain the proper knowledge needed to do it your and Mark's suggested way. Your way has flaws, my way has flaws, people who succeed know how to apply what they learn in those ways and apply them successfully to their problem.

[upngo50]

My whole point I guess was yeah It works as I said, but how do get the car running to begin with if you don't know how to acheive a proper lash to even start the motor. Set them all loose and hope the car stays running or you don't bend a pushrod cuz it wasn't seated properly. Not me, I would rather do it the right way the first time. I can see fine tuning them with the motor running, but not a motor that has never been run before. That's all..no need to get your undies in a bundy. Experience has alot to do with performance and going fast. I dont' think I am the only one that shares that opinion. On all levels.....you think Ford made a 400 horse mustang by luck? Don't think so

"This is exactly what I suggested doing, doing it a way that he has done before and is comfortable with''..............you didn't know he had done it before until after you suggested it by the way.

[markstang]

so if you have the old valve cover on with a small slot in it, so the oil can't squirt out on your motor. How do you tighten the polylock nut on a stud mounted rocker, like the question was about in the 1st place.
Every time I did it, I had to use a box/open end type of wrench to hold the nut in place when I would tighten down the set screw inside of the nut, agenst the top of the stud for that rocker, locking it place so the lash will not change.... I'm shure you could have a special tool to go with the set of valve covers.
I always have to hold the poly lock nut in place, when I tighten down the set screw or it will turn & change the lash.... I figured that out in cam class 101 on my 1st cam change in my dodge dakota truck.

so why is the World Ford Challenge held in the midwest, so far away from the hot bed of mustang action down south? when is there a race down south, only when its cold up north. I don't think you can call anyplace a hot bed, I mean the best web site is called Midwest Mustang Association not down south mustang association..... :D



Mark :rockon:

[jdsgallops]

My whole point I guess was yeah It works as I said, but how do get the car running to begin with if you don't know how to acheive a proper lash to even start the motor. Set them all loose and hope the car stays running or you don't bend a pushrod cuz it wasn't seated properly. Not me, I would rather do it the right way the first time. I can see fine tuning them with the motor running, but not a motor that has never been run before.

Once again read my whole last post to see everything I said. I said each way has it's flaws. In the case of the original post you will see he tried setting it the way both of you suggested and had doubts on his success. At which point in time I suggested what I know worked for me and is a system I have developed over 15 years of working on my own car. What you don't realize in your above post is that it is just as easy to get the rockers too tight, which is just as bad as having them too loose, and was the problem I tended to have. This leaves the valve hanging open which could cause a problem with P2V clearances. The chances of getting one of those two situations is very easy as the actual time both valves are closed is very small so it is not very difficult to have one of the lifters at the beginning of the ramp. This is why I suggested the exact method I did to a person who had a known running car and explained it in detail in a way he could understand. Enough justifying myself for giving someone very good and useful information in answer to his question.

Mark, WFC? One race located in the central part of the country. What a dumb idea to put the race in the central part of the country so everyone could participate. What were they thinking the first couple of years when it was held in Bowling Green, KY and Joliet, IL? And why would there be 3 races held in Fl between FFW and the NMRA( Orlando, Bradenton, and Gainesville)? The best website might be the MMA but that could be because people in warm weather climates are able to be outside enjoying their cars instead of staying warm inside.

[markstang]

Mark, WFC? One race located in the central part of the country. What a dumb idea to put the race in the central part of the country so everyone could participate. What were they thinking the first couple of years when it was held in Bowling Green, KY and Joliet, IL? And why would there be 3 races held in Fl between FFW and the NMRA( Orlando, Bradenton, and Gainesville)? The best website might be the MMA but that could be because people in warm weather climates are able to be outside enjoying their cars instead of staying warm inside.


??? I enjoyed my cars all year. did you ever hear of a garage.... type away I have better things to do than bs about who has better valve setting techniques & were its better to live/race. stop by my trailer at the wfc with those special valve covers so I can try them out & set my valves. I mite go faster you never know.

Mark

[upngo50]

What you don't realize in your above post is that it is just as easy to get the rockers too tight, which is just as bad as having them too loose, and was the problem I tended to have. This leaves the valve hanging open which could cause a problem with P2V clearances


My point exactly, one way or the other too loose too tight what is the difference, they both lead to damage. I am not starting a debate on it. I am just saying sometimes running the car to set the rocker arms is not the best choice. So get off it already...................the poor guy just asked for help not a bunch or ranting over who does what which way. Let him decide. Man :thud:

[jdsgallops]

So get off it already...................the poor guy just asked for help not a bunch or ranting over who does what which way. Let him decide. Man :thud:

Now here is the irony in the whole thread. If you read the original post you will see that the poster originally tried doing it your way, for many of the concerns that were brought up here I would guess. Then asked if there was a better/different/easier way to do it because he was not happy with his results. Which I then posted a method that has very successfully worked for me. Then two people post info that the poster has already used in response to my reply not his. So please tell me who actually helped the guy with his question.

Sorry Mark I can't make WFC. A 7th week off just isn't affordable right now, nor do I find a need to fly across country to watch a race with the same racers that will show up within a reasonable driving distance of my home. And if I was going the last thing I would do is pack a valve cover to let some bitter person who can't take critisism try. Have fun racing, hope you do well.(and when racing season has started and the engine isn't in the car yet it doesn't look like that garage does much good ;) )

[markstang]

what? some say I'm sweet not bitter. I would stay home if I was you also.
the question was, what is zero lash, not how can I do this better.... O & if you have that close of p2v clr. that a hong open valve could hit the top of the piston, you have many other problems. I figured you should know something like that because you have been doing this for 15yrs now...
type away, I'll be working.


Mark