Frustration at it's MAX!!

[bobtodd]

Heads are on. Intake is on. All the little header bolts are in and tight. Spark plugs in. Exhaust bolted up. Alternator bracket with alternator put back on. Then this is when the fun begins....the bolts for my power steering don't thread into the head. Holes are too small on the head. Guess what holes they will thread into.....the ones on the back of the head on the passenger side :mad:
I am ready to cry! I didnt realize I needed to check for those. I figured each head was interchangeable and it didnt matter what side it went on. I am so upset right now. All the work.... :thud: :thud: :thud:

Can I even re-use my head gaskets again? That'll be $60 down the drain...along with the intake gasket. You live and learn I guess.

[bobtodd]

Why would the heads be different?? This sucks. Both are stamped 66 289. Would Ford actually put different sized holes in their heads. This makes no sense to me.

[Greg@GLD]

That has never happened to me before. You should be able to interchange the heads. I think your thermactor inserts are in the wrong holes? That would be easy to solve.

[Greg@GLD]

Oh wait a sec, 1966??? I thought these were 5.0 heads...

[Kool Rock Steady]

You can reuse the head gaskets since you didn't fire it up and the HG's didn't see any heat ect.

I have to admit I did that before 1 time. I was joking about it and then I found out it happened but I realized right after I started tq'ing the head down :thumbs_up

[jdsgallops]

I had the same problem when running 289 heads. Much easier solution is this. Take the bolts for the bracket (should only be a big long stud) down to a machine shop and have them mill it down to the proper diameter. I didn't even have to rethread it and the whole stud doesn't have to be done, stopping at the back of the thread should be enough and keep the bolt large enough not to move around in the bracket. Doing this should save lots of time and labor, well worth the couple of bucks the shop will charge.

[bobtodd]

I had the same problem when running 289 heads. Much easier solution is this. Take the bolts for the bracket (should only be a big long stud) down to a machine shop and have them mill it down to the proper diameter. I didn't even have to rethread it and the whole stud doesn't have to be done, stopping at the back of the thread should be enough and keep the bolt large enough not to move around in the bracket. Doing this should save lots of time and labor, well worth the couple of bucks the shop will charge.


SOunds like a good idea. I DO NOT want to pull all that stuff off again. I think whoever put the heads on the car must have tapped the two holes for the power steering bracket. HOw easy would it be to tap a couple of holes?? NEver done it before.
What a headache...lol

[jdsgallops]

SOunds like a good idea. I DO NOT want to pull all that stuff off again. I think whoever put the heads on the car must have tapped the two holes for the power steering bracket. HOw easy would it be to tap a couple of holes?? NEver done it before.
What a headache...lol

Yep sounds like you are correct. Buying new bolts and machine the stud down will be much easier than tapping the holes.

[markstang]

what size holes do you want to tap? you will need the correct drill for the size hole you want to tap. I can let you know what drill to use. yes its not easy to tap a hole if you have not done it before, you just have to take your time. or turn down the stud diameter if you think that will work....
I would just do it the correct way & swap the heads back so it is the same as before. its not that much work, but it does suck.

[jdsgallops]

Bob I went and looked to see if I had my old stud still. Sure enough so I snapped a pic or two so you can have an idea what to look for.

[bobtodd]

So did they just carve the threads down a bit? I dont suppose they may a bolt like that where the stud part is 7/16 and the threads are 3/8?? I could just use a bolt. The threaded end on the other side doesnt even need to be there on my set up. Thanks for all the replies!

[jdsgallops]

As far as I can tell he did nothing to the threads, and I did not chase them either. A quality machine shop should be able to answer that question. As far as finding one like that, doubtful. If you can find a bushing you could just use the 3/8th bolt. No bushing could result in alignment problems though.

[markstang]

guys, if you need to make a 7/16-14 bolt go into a 3/8-16 threaded hole, you would have to turn down the 7/16 diameter to 3/8 (.375). that would be the correct diameter for a 3/8s thread. the threads on the 7/16-14 bolt will still be showing by a few thou. that will be ok, it will not affect the 3/8-16 thread that would now have to be turned onto the new .375 dia.
If you are working with a fine thread, 7/16-20 or 3/8-24. it can still be done. you would still need to turn it down to .375 & then cut the fine thread.
I can do all of this for you or any other machine shop as long as they can hold it in a lathe chuck. If you are working with a stud no problem, a bolt with the hex head could need some special holding sleeve.
I would still pull the heads & swap them back. take it as a good lesson learned, not some quick fix thats not that quick or slick....


Mark

[jdsgallops]

I would still pull the heads & swap them back. take it as a good lesson learned, not some quick fix thats not that quick or slick....


Mark I am really curious why you think the "correct" way to fix this problem is to swap the heads back around and most importantly why machining a bolt down is a "quick fix thats not that quick or slick". If the previous owner would not have drilled and tapped the hole bigger he would have no choice but to machine the bolt down. A head doesn't know what side of the engine it is on. Isn't drilling the hole bigger and tapping it also a "quick and slick" way to fix the problem? Which means he just shouldn't be using heads that were not meant for the application. He is using what he was delt, and it is sure easier and faster to drop a bolt off to be machined down on your way to work and pick it up on your way home than to swap all the parts back around when the only true difference is the size of a mounting hole.

[upngo50]

Would it just be easier and cheaper to buy a new bolt at the local harware store?

[markstang]

Mark I am really curious why you think the "correct" way to fix this problem is to swap the heads back around and most importantly why machining a bolt down is a "quick fix thats not that quick or slick". If the previous owner would not have drilled and tapped the hole bigger he would have no choice but to machine the bolt down. .


well what size hole is in the bracket? for a 7/16 screw or 3/8 screw? If the engineers at ford put a 7/16 screw in that spot on the bracket it was for a reason.
we can leave it at that (if you can). so thats 1 reason why I don't think its that slick IMO.

Mark

[bobtodd]

The hole on the head is a 3/8 size hole...the stud is a 7/16. Whoever had the car before me drilled and tapped two 7/16 holes for the power steering bracket bolt/stud. I didn't realize this had been done and accidently put the heads on so those tapped holes were on the back side of the passenger side head leaving 3/8 size holes on the front of the drivers side head where the power steering goes.
Three options...1.take heads off and switch them 2. Drill and tap holes for 7/16 3. Machine the threads of the stud down to 3/8.

I ended up going with option 3, which worked out great!! Cost me two bucks(he didnt even charge me but I gave him some anyhow) and took not even five minutes to get it done. The threads look good as new and went in the hole on the head with no problems.

The reason I didnt get a new bolt is because I couldnt find a stud where the stud part was 7/16 and had 3/8 threads.

Anyhow, the car is completely together and looks great. I bought some antifreeze and will be getting that put in tomorrow. I should be able take it for a spin then :rockon:

Thank you for all the help!!

[jdsgallops]

well what size hole is in the bracket? for a 7/16 screw or 3/8 screw? If the engineers at ford put a 7/16 screw in that spot on the bracket it was for a reason.
we can leave it at that (if you can). so thats 1 reason why I don't think its that slick IMO.


:rolleyes: Did you even bother to read any of this thread? Did you bother to look at the pics I posted? The problem was stated very clearly. The suggestion I made was very clear, machining the threads only, thus keeping the correct diameter of the bolt while getting the threads to the correct size. The pic I posted very clearly shows that. Why would anyone machine the entire bolt when a new one could be purchased much more easily? YOU even answered why the threads wouldn't need to be chased and said you could perform the operation. Bob understood his options, and has choosen the one that he felt was best and is happy with the results. Now maybe instead of people trying to prove others suggestions wrong they should pay more attention to what is posted to help those asking questions make the correct decision. Your attention to detail on this and the last thread have done nothing but proven me correct(all you need to do is look at your last post in the previous thread to find that out). Now why don't we get back to business here and start helping those with questions instead on bickering among ourselves.

[jdsgallops]

BTW Glad I could help you save a lot of your time Bob. With all the work you have been doing on the car you haven't been able to keep the scores up in the arcade. I hope this frees up the time to "fix" that. ;)

[bobtodd]

Lol!!....yeah, I see my top scores disappearing daily:)

[BBATCO1]

:rolleyes: Did you even bother to read any of this thread? Did you bother to look at the pics I posted? The problem was stated very clearly. The suggestion I made was very clear, machining the threads only, thus keeping the correct diameter of the bolt while getting the threads to the correct size. The pic I posted very clearly shows that. Why would anyone machine the entire bolt when a new one could be purchased much more easily? YOU even answered why the threads wouldn't need to be chased and said you could perform the operation. Bob understood his options, and has choosen the one that he felt was best and is happy with the results. Now maybe instead of people trying to prove others suggestions wrong they should pay more attention to what is posted to help those asking questions make the correct decision. Your attention to detail on this and the last thread have done nothing but proven me correct(all you need to do is look at your last post in the previous thread to find that out). Now why don't we get back to business here and start helping those with questions instead on bickering among ourselves.
How was he bickering? How is having a bolt re-enginered and designed easier or more cost effective than swapping heads? It sounds like a bandaid to me. Should be a 2 hour project tops even on a fully equipped car. If its not the practice will do you some good. I think you missed the point he was relaying. If a head swap is too much work for you selll your car and take up channel surfing.

[bobtodd]

$2 to have the bolt changed to a different thread, or $70+ dollars for new gaskets plus all the work I just did? I'd rather spend the two bucks, throw the bolt in the hole and be done with it...no biggie. I don't need anymore experience changing head gaskets. No matter how many times you do it, it's still a pain in the butt:) It's done and I'm happy. I dont see how it's a bandaid??
If you put 289 heads on a 5.0 mustang you've got two options. Drill and tap or make the threads on the stud smaller.

[Greg@GLD]

John, setting aside the information aspect, I REALLY wish that you would try to be less confrontational. While it might be your nature to be that way, it comes off as very unfriendly, and this is not conducive to a feeling of community that Kirk and I are trying to forge here. I hate even having to post this in public, but I read this stuff and it makes me wince. Mark's got a pretty damn fast car and he deserves some measure of respect. Sometimes the manner in which we communicate can muddle the message. Even if the content of the message is "correct" the tone of same can turn people off to the point of not wanting to visit a particular website anymore. That's not the idea, ok?

[Greg@GLD]

Bob, since the problem is solved, that's all that matters at this point. :beer:

[jdsgallops]

So be it Greg, but I don't see where asking an opinion of why someone feels one way is better than the other is confrontational. I guess from now on I will just stay out of this forum and not help others. I guess because I have a slow car I don't deserve the respect of what I have learned, which just saved someone a great deal of time and money.

[Greg@GLD]

See there you go again. You got your undies all in a bundle over a technical discussion.
I don't know how else to ask you to tone it down. I already did once, it didn't seem to help. I don't see what the big deal is with asking someone to show a little more tact when presenting alternative views. Read what you posted John. People don't always agree, but getting all agressive and confrontational isn't what this place is for. I'm sorry if you can't see that. You're welcome to be here but this isn't The Corral. It's not a place with strangers from all over, it's a small community of people who share a common interest.

[BBATCO1]

$2 to have the bolt changed to a different thread, or $70+ dollars for new gaskets plus all the work I just did? I'd rather spend the two bucks, throw the bolt in the hole and be done with it...no biggie. I don't need anymore experience changing head gaskets. No matter how many times you do it, it's still a pain in the butt:) It's done and I'm happy. I dont see how it's a bandaid??
If you put 289 heads on a 5.0 mustang you've got two options. Drill and tap or make the threads on the stud smaller.
I was not trying to start anything. Mark is a accomplished machineist and I trust his judgement. I would trust his work all day long and doubted he would turn a bolt down, and rethread it that cheaply. Trust me if you start to go fast you will learn to take heads off/on in your sleep thats the nature of the game. Personally I find working on the car to be relaxing but to each his own..... :rockon:

[Greg@GLD]

Boys Boys Boys, lets take the Drama to CPG or Corral. I can see both points, and John, the way you worded it came off the wrong way. I know exactly what you meant, maybe its because I piss off everyone when I open my mouth because I'm blunt and speak exactly whats on my mind, no sugar coating. Their complaint is where you said " did you bother....... this, and did you bother......that." You saved him alot of time, just the way you worded it came across wrong. Now stop pissing people off, thats my job, you're stealing all my Thunder!!!!;)

Now, lets get back to normal!

Dan we expect that sort of thing from you because... well...

You're DAN. :D

[Kirk]

Dan,

You are still our unofficial "Pisser Offer" :D

[Kirk]

[QUOTE=Dan]Who's a guy gotta piss off to become "OFFICIAL"???
QUOTE]

You are getting there :D

[Kirk]

dan,

You make me laugh. Thanks... :thumbs_up

[markstang]

:rolleyes: Did you even bother to read any of this thread? Did you bother to look at the pics I posted? The problem was stated very clearly. The suggestion I made was very clear, machining the threads only, thus keeping the correct diameter of the bolt while getting the threads to the correct size. The pic I posted very clearly shows that. Why would anyone machine the entire bolt when a new one could be purchased much more easily? YOU even answered why the threads wouldn't need to be chased and said you could perform the operation. Bob understood his options, and has choosen the one that he felt was best and is happy with the results. Now maybe instead of people trying to prove others suggestions wrong they should pay more attention to what is posted to help those asking questions make the correct decision. Your attention to detail on this and the last thread have done nothing but proven me correct(all you need to do is look at your last post in the previous thread to find that out). Now why don't we get back to business here and start helping those with questions instead on bickering among ourselves.

only a dumb ass like you would think that. I never said that the hole stud would be 3/8s diameter. just the threads.(I mite have figured you could have understood that, but not with your basic way of thinking) The size of the threads is what determines the strenght of the fastener. If ford wanted a 3/8s threaded hole they would have made it a 3/8s. For some reason the engineers put a stronger fastener in that spot for a reason, & I'm shure they know why,(more than you) it needed to be a 7/16 not 3/8s.
if you turn down a 7/16 stud to 3/8s on one end, the week point will be the step from 7/16 down to 3/8s.
say what you want, rip me all you need to. its a good thing this bord has somebody like you. :geek: :geek: :geek: :geek:

Mark

[Someguy]

What? Pm me the punchline if you dont wanna post it here. :D

What would you call Batman and Robin if they were black?

[bobtodd]

None of the holes on a 289 head are 7/16. They are all 3/8. All the bolts holding the alternator to the head are 3/8. Whats the difference if the power steering is being held by a 3/8 stud. There are two other 3/8 bolts helping hold the power steering. I highly doubt the stud being machined down to a 3/8 thread is a weak point in anything. My opinion. If it breaks I'll let you know.


Anyhow the car is all put together and is running great.....so maybe this thread can be over?? :thumbs_up

Thank you for everyones help! :rockon: