Anyone on here ever replace a roof panel?

[portponies]

I decided to go ahead and replace the roof sheetmetal on Project Scavenger as long as all the glass and trim has been removed.

Has anybody ever done this or had it done? Any hints or tips?

I may farm it out if the price is reasonable.

Thanks.

[Black Notch]

Here's a thread about this with lots of pictures: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=648161&highlight=sunroof+removal

It looks like a lot of work.

[upngo50]

Doesn't look like too bad of a job. I would highly suggests a spot weld drill or a spot weld drill bit for your air drill, save yourself some headaches cuz there are a ton of spot welds to drill out. I would get some weld through primer and some seal-out to corrosion protect it also.

[fivonut]

That doesn't look to bad. It appears to be mostly a cosmetic panel so alignment would be the only big concern. Then careful welding to prevent warping in that huge flat area.

[portponies]

I know there are a ton of spot welds on that panel.

It looks more time consuming than difficult.

I'm going to try it. I'll document it with some pics also as I go along. I have 2 spare roof panels to use, so basically I have all the parts I need. The car has all the glass out of it also. I guess I'll just pull the pins on the door hinges, remove the hatch, and away we go.

[Teeto's5.0]

Thats really weird that you ask that. Im actually doing one right now. Its on my 89 stang. All it comes down to is drilling spot welds. You can use a spot weld drill bit or I use an 1/8 inch bit and then drill with a larger bit. Then at the seam on the c-pillar take a small propane torch and heat the area. Make sure you do this when the paint is ground away. Also don't over heat. This will melt the factory lead and expose the factory seam. A few spot welds and some stich welds. You can also use an air chisel on your old roof panel. You have to know how to make it rip the metal you don't need. I would suggest an air chisel for speed on the old roof panel. Then there are a few supports under the roof skin. Take a putty knife and heat it with your propane torch. Then slide it between the two panels and it will cut the vibration insulation. Fit your roof panel, hang your deck lid and don't forget to use some zinc primer. You spray this on all bare steel. Then scratch it away where you will weld. ICAR and ASE don't suggest it as "weld through primer" anymore. I have done a few of these and can send you a few pictures. I would also help you out if your not compfortable. My air compressor is on the fritz right now. Let me know if you need any help. Colin.

[upngo50]

Fit your roof panel, hang your deck lid and don't forget to use some zinc primer. You spray this on all bare steel. Then scratch it away where you will weld. ICAR and ASE don't suggest it as "weld through primer" anymore. I have done a few of these and can send you a few pictures. I would also help you out if your not compfortable. My air compressor is on the fritz right now. Let me know if you need any help. Colin.


Nice......

New member jumping right in. Thanx for sharing the information and welcome to MMA!


I hate weld through primer...Is Zinc primer the only corrosion protection you used on that type of job?

[Teeto's5.0]

Weld through primer does suck. If you think you can get it in the area hose some epoxy primer in the weld areas after welding. Nothing and I mean nothing beats epoxy. But don't try to weld around it because it will burn back a little. Like I said before the ICAR and ASE say not to weld through zinc primer anymore. You can spray it on bare metal that will be covered up. But then clean it off where you are going to weld. They make a sprayable corrosion protection wax you can spray in and it actually creeps ( it will move under hem flanges and creep around corners.) I would definetly try all you can to get the bare metal covered but sometimes its real hard to get into the area. Colin Thanks for the welcome!!

[upngo50]

They make a sprayable corrosion protection wax you can spray in and it actually creeps ( it will move under hem flanges and creep around corners.) I would definetly try all you can to get the bare metal covered but sometimes its real hard to get into the area. Colin Thanks for the welcome!!


That stuff is called Seal-Out. There are a couple others on the market now, but Seal-Out was the first and still the best as far as I can see. That stuff is great cuz you don't need a ton of it and it will creep right into the areas that need it most...the ones that are hard to get at, but it is a product that needs to be put on after any primer and paint. I like to try and hose on the epoxy myself, then use some seal out if I had an area I could force some primer into.

[DRK]

Seal Out is made by WK products and it is the shizz as is thier Backcoat.

A spot weld cutter will be worth it's weight in GOLD.

I would only weld the replacement at the pillars and Norton Speed Grip the rest. It will cut down on repair time and reduce the chance of warping the new skin. I've helped do 2 rollovers this way it works great, and it's I-CAR recomended. I'm I-CAR certified in Non-Structural Repair, Refinishing, and passed the I-CAR Weld test. You will need a second pair of hands though, many clamps, and the 1 hour adhesive. I've also bonded a fiberglass roof skin to a 911 race car that has about 50 hours on it now with no signs of repairs needed.

I would either TIG braze or use Aluma-Lead for filler on the pillars, regular light weight filler will not do here.

A good trick to get the epoxy into the rails, etc. is to use a under coat gun with a 360 degree spray pattern tip. I have a dedicated $50 undercoat gun I use for this. I like PPG epoxys The DP-40LF (grey) works good.

Good Luck :biggrinsa

[Teeto's5.0]

Good info guys. Seal out is what I used in the first collision shop I worked in. I had another type I used at a dealership that was called body wax made by Wurth. And as the name says it was pretty worth less... Ha ha. As far as glue I think it has its place. For a new skin it would work great. If you have to use a used skin like I am (ford discontinued roof skins for 87-93 mustangs) I dont know how well it would work because you would have all the spot weld holes you drilled. ( a bunch of glue squishing out of the holes). I guess it wouldn't much matter because its all covered windsheild and trim. The only way to combat that would be to cut the used skin off by cutting all the bracing underneath anc griding the spot welds off from behind. Dplf is awesome I use it for sealer also. The old dp worked great too as it has a lot more pigment. The dplf white kinda sucks for coverage unless you add a little grey.

[DRK]

Actually I-car recommends drilling out holes in the toplayer "pinning", so you get adhesive locking through the panel just as you described.

The old DP primers had lead in them, LF stands for lead free. I have had adhesion problems in the past with the black and white DP primers

[upngo50]

I personally would use adhesive also to cut down on warpag, but some people don't like the stuff so I did not suggest it. I bonded a quarter on a pasat last year and it turned out pretty nice. You need a ton of clamps though, you can't just move them as you go like you kind of can welding. Some of those structual adhesives can be used for small gaps like filler, but I am kind of partial to fiberglass reinforced filler or aluma-Lead.

[DRK]

I'd be worried about shrinkage using the adhesive for filler on my own car, but I do know people that do it everyday and I have done it in the past.
Tig brazing is the only way to go,but you need a AC/DC Tig welder and specific rod. Heat is minimal, and because you run on AC and the arc is somewhat self cleaning the base as you go so there is less prep. It's soft enough that it grinds easliy, is much more durable than plastic, and will never shrink. I've also "corrected" some unsightly body gaps with this method. It is time intensive though.

[upngo50]

There is a new procedure out from I-car regarding the shrinkage issues that can be common with some of the adhesives. It was developed because of the Saturns. Adhesives are a popular repair choice on those cars, but if it isn't done right you can see the repair pretty easily.

[Teeto's5.0]

I guess Im sort of old fashioned. As soon as they took the lead out of dp everyone was complaining they couldn't get coverage!! But all in all I learned to like lf good too. I have always had awesome results with dp and dplf no problems with adheision. Usually epoxy sticks to everything!! He He. But like anything else everyone has their own way of doing things and Im pretty sure they come out the same in the end. Just different ways of going about it. The thing I didn't like about bonding was that the spot welds are desinged and placed in a certain way. For collapsing in an accident. If you bond lets say the entire pinch weld of a quarter you just changed the structural integrity of that car... But I am ICAR 2000 or 3000 can't remember what one it was and ASE refinish and collision certified, PPG certified, and I don't think it really means much. They give you some good ideas for a few situations but all in all its just a pretty certificate that mounts on your wall and lets you be a drp shop... Colin.

[portponies]

Thanks for all the good info.

I'm going to weld on the "new" panel rather than glue it on. I'm not too worried about warping it, since my welder is a little 110v unit.

A I said, I'll take pics as I go along so someday I can post up a little article about it. I hope to start on this project early January, and I'd like to have it all back together by March.

I may actually get the car rolling this year!

[JORGE]

fritz i have 2 sawzas and a few really good blades . you dont need a top
if you need my help im there man

[portponies]

fritz i have 2 sawzas and a few really good blades . you dont need a top
if you need my help im there man


Well, that would make installing the roll cage a whole lot easier. :thumbs_up

[JORGE]

always there to help fritz ,so when do we start

[DRK]

The thing I didn't like about bonding was that the spot welds are desinged and placed in a certain way. For collapsing in an accident. If you bond lets say the entire pinch weld of a quarter you just changed the structural integrity of that car...
But I am ICAR 2000 or 3000 can't remember what one it was and ASE refinish and collision certified, PPG certified, and I don't think it really means much. They give you some good ideas for a few situations but all in all its just a pretty certificate that mounts on your wall and lets you be a drp shop..

A plug weld won't let go like a factory spot weld will anyway.

Yes certifications don't mean chit.

Fritz,
you can badly warp a roof skin with a 110 welder. You'll want to weld "Hot and fast" that way your in and out quick with minimal heat spread.

[Teeto's5.0]

Yup spread them out. Do a plug here and a plug there cool with air. You can also use heat clay. Its a clay that you can mound up on the heat area that wont let is spread as much. I soaks up the heat and helps a little.

[JORGE]

hows it coming along ?

[portponies]

I did some work on the current roof panel. I figured I would practice some dent removal techniques on it, and if they worked - cool! If they don't, then I will still replace it.

I'm trying my hand at heating and shrinking to pop the dents out. Some work, some don't. I also have a set of body dollies and hammers, so I will practice with those also.

The only thing I have to lose practicing on it is some of my time.

[portponies]

Well, after Colin stopped by and recommended what I guess I already knew, I went ahead with the roof panel removal.

So far, it took a little over an hour to drill out the spot welds and remove the skin. Next will come the clean-up and the straightening of the front windshield support (I think it was used to seat some people). Then I can start fitting the replacement skin.

Here are some pics of what an hours worth of stress/anger management focusing can accomplish.

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0001.jpg

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0002.jpg

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0003.jpg

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0004.jpg

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0005.jpg

http://www.midwestmustangassociation.com/vb3/uploads/FSRroofpics0006.jpg

[DRK]

sweet it's a Skyliner.

[portponies]

Yea, I was thinking about installing the skin and then wrapping it around the framework. That would create an open area of 38" wide by 32" deep.

Maybe Mickey could PS one of the pics to look like that?

[Teeto's5.0]

Looks familiar!!!!